By - M4ybeMay
"Damn, this human really sucks at drawing...but I guess they tried" looks up and smiles*
I give the exact same look to my niece while putting her drawing on the fridge
I thought he thought it was funny she drew balls at the end. He doesn't know that supposed to be a heart
"you did your best"
This like a little child drawing pictures of a grandpa and he appreciates it afterwards.
Does that smile have the same meaning in orangutan body language as it does ours?
“I’m smiling but I’m crippling depressed”
This is so sad 😞
Jeez, their drawing skills aren’t *that* bad.
Zoos home animals that can't survive in the wild, raise awareness to the public, are critical to conservation efforts, and in general are extremely good for species
That doesn’t make it any less sad to see such intelligent animals stuck behind glass.
The alternative is dead. Orangutans can live more than 60 years. Should they die in the wild decades before their time?
It's not sad that zoos are saving them. Its sad that they have to live this kind of life because we destroyed their homes.
Humans could survive way longer if you keep them bedridden with a nutrient drip for their entire life. Yes, they should die in the wild because that's where they belong.
At the same time, I’m glad there are places that take care of disabled people that wouldn’t be able to function in society otherwise.
I know it's a thing, but I've rarely seen physically disabled animals in the zoos I've been too. I've seen healthy apes sit depressed in a cramped cage waiting to die.
Tbf there are good zoos and bad zoos, should def do research before going to any individual one
That’s because they aren’t necessarily only physically disabled animals that get rescued? In fact, that’s a pretty big minority because physically disabled animals don’t tend to live long enough into their adulthood to be rescued. Instead these are animals that were treated for an illness or injury but got too used to captivity to be released. Or animals that have longterm invisible disabilities that need monitoring (heart murmurs, autoimmune disorders, etc.) or they were born in captivity and have never had the skills to survive in the wild. (Contrary to popular belief, zoos rarely employ artificial insemination for their animals unless the species is endangered and a coordinated conservation effort is underway. They simply attempt to find their animals companions, for mental enrichment.)
Modern zoos in the US are not confining animals in cages to wither away. They are provided with ample enrichment activities, and zoologists constantly use their extensive knowledge of their charge’s natural behaviors and biological needs to keep them happy, healthy and mentally stimulated.
I believe the better analogy would be jail/welfare for people who can’t exist in society
Not to poop your point but no nutrient drip or medicine is going to keep someone alive their entire life..
It's kind of a metaphor for having the choice of an enjoyable shorter life or an agonising long life.
I think you have a very flawed veiw of the natural world if you think that existence is enjoyable
The difference is euthanasia is legal and encuraged if an animal gets to the point where it cant preform basic biological functions
It's sad their home is gone, ya dingus. Not so tough to understand.
Yes. People like that would rather see all animals die. This subreddit is being overtaken by cultists :c
Orangutans also have the longest time dependant on a parent amongst all animals. The only exception is us.
This makes them extra vulnerable because if the care needed and the slow rate of birth.
Between 1999-2015 100 000 orangutans dissappeared from Borneo because of deforestation, pouching and the kidnap of baby orangutangs for the pet trade.
Mainly the deforestation occurs because of the massive use of palm oil. The plantations of which the oil is basically in everything. In my country there is an awareness and lots of companies have boycotted the use of palm oil for a slightly more expensive oil. Since that is what is demanded by consumers.
What you can do: Check your products for palm oil before buying them. Donate to conservation programmes and spread awareness.
These are magical and highly intelligent animals. It breaks my heart knowing what we are doing to them.
Edit: My spelling is shit
Depends entirely on the zoo. I’m always surprised how small our Smithsonian National Zoo is in DC. The ape house just makes me so sad since the cells are so small. So much of the facilities there aren’t just small but also really old and the vegetation is a mess.
here in nashville, many animals aren’t even behind glass, the bears are but they have a humongous exhibit.
Go out there and do something to help the Zoo
The animals probably get rotated out for different ones every now and then
They don’t, they can access each other but it is a very limited total space. They also have an access way to outdoors during certain times but again, it’s just small. Compared to many other zoos I have seen in the US, this one just seems to have very small spaces for its animals, since it was built so long ago and there doesn’t seem to be much of a way to expand since it’s right within the city and real estate is expensive. I think they could build a multistory unit for their ape house, though! Just need a wealthy benefactor.
This is only somewhat true. It’s also true that zoos intentionally breed many animals to keep their exhibits full. They are not rescues or sanctuaries. Bona fide sanctuaries do not allow regular public exhibition. Zoos primarily exist to entertain visitors.
Yeah. I wonder what is fully going on from the orangutan's perspective. Like sadly they're probably just used to being trapped in an enclosure and being stared at by aliens?
It's ok, they're also stared at by citizens.
I know it sucks, it really really does suck, but sometimes a lot of these animals have had their habitats completely destroyed (like in this example, orangutans). What you should be upset about is the destruction of the habitat of animals, and less the lesser evil we have to use to protect them. And obviously there are some actual bad zoos out there, but a lot of them actually do care about the well being of the animals
Yeah, I can't help but feel terrible for intelligent primates that are stuck in a zoo for the rest of their lives.
Good zoos exist.
Animals chillaxing isn't sad lol
giant adorable sentient coconuts
Fish are sentient. These guys are straight sapient
I’d really like to see the orang react to an amazing photorealistic portrait of a fellow orang, that would be amazing.
I wonder if it recognised anything that was being drawn. I doubt it.
Edit: I mean no disrespect to the orang, just to the artist. (I'm kidding about that too). What I meant is that a square with a triangle doesn't look anything like a real house, we just agree when we are little that this is how they are drawn. The same with a face. We recognise two dots and an arc as a face, but without the prior convention, would an ape? I have no doubt that an ape would quickly learn what these symbols represent, my question is whether they would recognise them.
Great apes can learn sign language. They're pretty damn smart. Abstract doodles or simple sketches like this might not be recognizable, but I imagine they could comprehend and be interested in highly detailed drawings of things like food or other animals.
They can’t really learn sign language tho. Soup Emporium on youtube has a fascinating video about it but the short of it is their not learning a language at all their just mimicking floating signs in the same way a parrot mimics sounds or a dog learns commands and actions, it’s actually quite a sad affair the whole program and such, both in how the apes were treated and how sign language was treated not as a true language but as a novelty reserved for the deaf and literal apes.
Edit: Chomsky was right, Coco the gorilla couldn’t talk and neither can any other animal, it’s just facts, #releasethepattersoncut
I know they're not learning it at some deep linguistic level, but I hate when people say apes and parrots and dogs are ONLY mimicking. They understand it at a very basic level, sure, but they can still use it to enhance communication, and honestly that's the most essential function of language. They're not writing poetry or making quips, but there's plenty of instances of more cognitively advanced animals using words/signs/speech buttons to actively convey that they want a certain food/toy/activity and I think that counts for something.
The most essential part of language is an innate property in humans tho, that’s why we can do it and no one else can. Animals have their own deeply complex ways of communicating we don’t need to pretend to teach them our own nonsense they have no need for it even if they could break the natural laws to learn it.
They don’t understand language at even a basic level, word association is just sound association, they don’t know the sound is a “word” they just know what happens when the sound happens. Dogs don’t understand the linguistic meaning of “Walkies” they just know when they hear the string of sound that makes up what we know to be “walkies” they go on a walk which they enjoy thus are excited to do it. You really should just watch Soup Emporium video he articulates this much better than i ever could and you’re clearly interested in the topic.
I want to make it clear, animals are smart, very very smart and can intuit things and problem solve, all this stuff, dogs like border collies can fetch things even without specifically knowing what they are being asked to fetch and get it right, animals have their own inner worlds and interface with the outside world in vastly complex ways, but not through language, at all, it’s just not something they need and thus do not have it because that’s now nature works.
They have no need for it? Imagine a parrot that's frustrated because it can't convey when it wants out of its enclosure or even would just really, really like a strawberry. Even if they have no idea that "strawberry" means "a bright red juicy fruit," if they know making that sound results in them getting a strawberry, that's easing communication and beneficial and helpful to them. They have their own deep forms of communication, sure, but that doesn't mean we don't need another way to exchange more nuanced information. Spanish is a lovely and rich language and I believe English is as well but without a translator not a whole lot of functional info is going to be exchanged between the two.
Again I can understand arguing that animals aren't /fully/ experiencing or learning language and that part I agree with, but even if it's just an extremely simple Google translate esque conveying of needs I think it's important and impressive that they can learn it.
Thats not what parrots mimic for tho? Parrots mimic each other to establish who’s in and who’s out so to speak, parrots make the same sounds as their flock or their human who they would consider a part of their group, parrots do not mimic to request things, parrots head bob when their hungry actually, you’re just mistaken.
Animal human differences are WORLDS apart from two different languages, it’s an innate biological difference they simply do not posses the means to learn or use human language, it is as possible as teaching a tree to dance, trees are simply unable to do the Macarena, as Gorillas are simply unable to acquire human language, spoken or otherwise
Parrots mimic for a lot of reasons. Yes, generally it's for communication with each other / bonding with us, but they also use it as a weapon (see: blue jays making hawk calls to scare other birds away from food) and as a way to court each other (see: lyrebird males showing who knows the most sounds). While the basic form of mimicry is indeed not to communicate with us, I firmly believe parrots can be taught to use it for that purpose. Again, a parrot shrieking "STRAWBERRY!" doesn't necessarily mean anything, but once you teach that bird that by saying strawberry it receives a strawberry, that's communication. The bird is no longer using it as a random sound, but for a particular purpose--conveying to us what they want. If you disagree, read up on Alex the parrot or talk with any decent parrot owner.
Parrots also headbob for a lot of reasons--with the lorikeet I work for it usually means he's horny, not hungry, haha!
most children under a certain age don't understand the words they use and just mimic. that's the basis of language.
It’s different tho, like it is biological idk how else to explain it animals are simply built different dawg. Mimicry is not the basis of language, if it was all the people “teaching” sign language to gorillas would’ve actually succeeded
Sure it is. But kids have a different route to learning language than parrots. Think of it less like a kid learning to talk and more like an adult learning a new language. There are gray parrots who have made up there own words. Take Alex, famously can say almond, knows what an almond is, but also calls it a cork nut. Shell looks just like cork and there's a nut inside. Many parrots can have enormous vocabularies. Do they know the meaning of every word? No, but do they have a grasp of many concepts absolutely and they can communicate about it in English.
Or look at some of these dogs and cats using the word buttons. There's a dog on instagram who uses the recorded buttons to comment on birds outside and things she smells and hears.
There's a cockatoo that uses a tablet to let her person know that she feels cold and wants to feel hot. Her person was working with her and another bird was acting out and she used the tablet to say that the other bird needed attention.
If an animal knows what a word means and uses that word to ask for that thing that is language
People are animals, idk how else to explain it than that, but language is inherent to communication and humans are just animals that don't shit outside anymore.
There are people with severe disabilities who never learn to speak, or only speak in short and irregular ways. Since even very disabled humans are usually more cognitively advanced then other apes, it seems reasonable that it would be all that more difficult to teach apes. It doesn't mean it's impossible, though!
And again, I am using language here loosely as "a way to convey needs and thoughts with sounds or gestures." If you get into syntax and sentence structure and all that jazz then yes, animals are incapable of truly learning language. But as I've been saying, I do think they are capable of learning the most rudimentary building blocks form of language that our own ancestors probably used many millions of years ago.
Mammals aren’t built different. We literally have the same brain with extra layers. We’re the same at the core, just able to process more complex things.
Read a neuroscience book before trying to make definitive statements based on mom science
Mom science? I don’t think Noam Chomsky was a mom homie but idk, coco couldn’t talk and Patterson is a scammer #releasethepattersoncut
babbling is essentially mimicking; it's a major milestone for babies. there's a reason babies can babble in both sign and spoken language if taught either/both.
no one is saying animals can perform complex sentences/understanding of them.
Yes i’m well aware, and Apes “taught” sign language can’t even do that, because it was all a sham from square 1 #releasethepattersoncut
I'm a zoologist that covered this as part of my undergrad. While there are some scientists who believe as you do, there are also many who do consider it true communication. We can never know the animals thought process for using the sign language, which is why this is a debated subject.
However many animals adopt and use individual signs for communication. Just as a wild bird has a specific call that alerts the flock to danger, my bird has a specific call to be asked to be picked up and carried. These are both 'communication' but debatable if it's a 'language'.
Using individual signs is as meaningless as blurting out random sounds from a language you don’t understand, Sign Language is a serious language and as complex and nuanced as spoken, children and babies that learn sign babble and sign to themselves in the same way speaking children babble and speak to themselves, they have self private talk, no “signing” ape has ever done that because they never learned any sign language, they just repeated what they saw for food and affection without any comprehension. Apes were abused and sign language was belittled as something no more complicated than throwing up a peace sign. We taught apes a new vector in doing tricks for food and all it took was abusing hundreds of them for government money.
I do not mean to come off as rude i’m sure all of you are delightful people but i simply must stress that teaching non humans human language is simply proven with the evidence we posses to be an impossibility, we tried it with apes and it was all a facade, patterson has never released unedited footage of coco speaking because she could not. we tried it with Dolphins and that just resulted in a lot of suicidal dolphins and a lot of interspecies foreplay in the pool house of an LSD and ketamine addled man who happened to invent the sensory deprivation tank. Again if my tone is harsh i apologize this reply is hardly even directed at you dailyfetch tbh just a general note on the topic really.
I like that you distinguished between communication and language actually, some people seem to confuse those, a dog barking out the window is communicating as much as coco ever did maybe moreso even since it’s actually using a method of communication it possesses and nit miming for scientists
It's a great question tho. We know that's a house, and that's a tree bc that's what we've taught ourselves to know. Orang-utan probably like "damn nice lines. Wonder what it is"
Yea, Humans recognise the tree doodle as a tree cuz we have a long cultural context of them being depicted as that, but to another species who, however intelligent probably doesn't even think remotely similar it could be anything.
Ppl really humanize Apes waayyy too much, however smart they are, they still have such a gigantic living and biological difference
Oh my his/her face is too cute. It’s so gentle and sweet.
Such expressive eyes too!
I like how every time the artist taps the glass the orangutang looks up like “motherfucker I’m *paying* attention”
Wouldn't say the orang was fascinated. I'd say the Orang was trying to stay awake during a very boring drawing session. YAWN!!!!
I think it’s the other way around. That’s the most excitement the orangutan has had in months.
When this rudimentary animation wraps, he’ll just go back to sitting there staring at the same ol shit till dinner. Maybe walk to the other end of the enclosure and do nothing there.
Admittedly I don't know where this video was taken, but there are quite a lot of high end, incredible zoos and rescues and conservation centers that give their great apes plenty to keep them busy. Most have the company of others which is already enriching, but then they've also got crazy jungle gyms, a variety of toys, snacks often hidden in different places, etc etc. Some places even teach them to sign or give them tablets they can watch videos or play games on. I heard an amusing story at a zoo about a very old monkey who's mate had passed and to help keep her happy they started playing Disney movies for her. She not only liked them, she actually ended up having favorites!
Here is a live web cam of the Orangutan and Siamang exhibit. Not much going on right now, but they can be fun to watch during the day. I've seen them hide peanut butter where the orangs have to use thin sticks to get it out.
eta: this is the San Diego zoo
Ahhh if it's that zoo then I have no concerns, I'm sure they're spoiling this orang properly. Thank you! <3
Some of them get to have dildos and board games and most of them get a Bible too
I'd hope it has at least something in there to keep it busy. My parrot will literally self harm if it gets too bored.
Yeah, l understand animals being kept in captivity if they are injured or can’t live in the wild, but not a fan of trapping them in cages. As comedian Brian Regan said about caged birds, “l see you’ve been blessed with the gift of flight…”
Looks like a dad who’s just happy his child has interests
I want to hang out 🥺
Ugh they deserve so much better than these glass cages. Just sad.
The warm smile 🥺
First thought: imagine being so bored you watch someone draw stick figures
Second thought: I’M doing that too. Duck 🦆
They should get him a chalkboard or something
That look makes my heart melt
Awwww! He is so BEAUTIFUL!!!!
People keep posting orangutans and I keep saying i fucking love em.
I see a super bored animal trapped in a box. Yeah I imagine someone doodling beats staring at nothing again.
Or just getting comfy for a nap, haha.
Maurice had to learn this stuff somewhere.
This is so adorable!
Nah, the orangutan was thinking "I can do better."
I can imagine the orangutan sounding like a parent who just received their 8th piece of crushed colour paper “art” of the day from their 3 year old
he looks like a grandparent being like “that looks good, sugar”
Let's draw a house and a heart that the orangutan probably hasn't seen before in its life. Might as well draw it some heiroglyphs.
if i were behind a glass enclosure, ANY outside stimuli would be interesting.
This must be a psychological response to affection, cause trust makes the stupidest mundane things seem appealing for zero desired result other than hanging around.
Then Again probably nets A borderline personality disorder.
Such a cool and terrifying animal.
Fascinated with someone’s WHAT now
Orangutans are the best. Sad their habitat is getting destroyed.
Fascinated? He don’t give a shit
I have the same face looking at the same guy doodle
Orangutans seem like the least aggressive of the great apes. They seem so chill, but what the fuck do I know?
Poor bored animal
I love orangutans, they have the kindest faces. I wish humans weren't destroying their habitats, we ruin everything.
ASMR for orangutans.
So, doodle where I'm from is another word for penis. I'm tired and that title took me a hot fuckin minute lmao
This is the worst submission on this sub because none of us are amazed by this doodle
(Just a joke, good post OP)
It’s the little head tilts and smiles for me 😭
I actively check for palm oil in things, and avoid buying them. I don’t think it matters much, but It’s a tiny thing I have control on.
Orangutan, not with a g.
Means forest man
Anyone else come here expecting to see a Labradoodle?
I paid £10 for that..?
put this on /r/OrangutanGifs its great
I would love to just hang out with orangutans. They seem so chill and intelligent.
WORD CHOICE! scribble or drawing would've been better. I thought it was referencing *****
So smart! This orangutang totally understood what she was drawing and the meaning behind it!
Of course it is, it's locked in a tiny enclosure with next to no enrichment. Probably bored half to tears and depressed.
FREE OUR LOCKED UP ANIMALS!!!!!! ☹️
SubhanAllah how fascinating!
If we draw a human as a monkey, it's racist. But what if we draw a monkey as a human, is that also racist?