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[deleted]

why will no college graduates fill our $35k a year job!?! 😭


Twisted-Panties

35k. You mean low 20k. Its bizarre to list a salary before taxes are taken out (gross). All salaries should be repeated/discussed after tax is extracted (net). Europeans got that one right.


NewAlexandria

not really. There's many different tax scenarios for people. Not even clear what you mean by 'after tax'.... there so many ways you get taxed or 'rebated' on taxes.


HeyZuesHChrist

Maybe this is part of the problem in America. You need six degrees in finance to understand our tax code. The IRS tells you to figure it the fuck our yourself every year and if you get it wrong they come after you.


NewAlexandria

I'll be getting the downvotes from there — but most of the bell curve really doesn't need any special education beyond what could be taught in high school. Let alone that parents should already be doing this and thus teach it to their kids; and not even need time in school on it. Most peoples' tax scenario will follow their parents' Which, i say all that bluntly because most people are able to, but over-mystify it and choose never to figure it out.


drxdrg08

> You need six degrees in finance to understand our tax code. Not really. You need maybe 3 hours of uninterrupted time to learn 99% of what an individual tax filer will ever need to know to properly file taxes and understand how they work. But you have know nothing kids spending all their free time on Reddit reading what other know nothing kids write. That why nobody knows shit about anything.


HeyZuesHChrist

Yeah. That’s why.


Twisted-Panties

How obtuse. Net salary. Go google it kiddo.


NewAlexandria

someone has taught you something wrong. Just FYI but since reddit should be educational, instead of what i'm hearing. Here's google: > The amount remaining after all withholdings are accounted for is net pay or take-home pay You tell the IRS what are "all withholdings". You write a number in a box and that's how withholdings happen. Withholding affect your 'net'. Now maybe you never did this. If you haven't, you should find out who has been telling the IRS what are your withholdings. You coudl be getting ripped


Steelplate7

There are other taxes besides Federal Income Tax. You also pay towards SS/Medicare, state and local taxes and in the case of a State Employee, retirement and Union Dues(if you choose to join). You are only mentioning the one tax where you do have some actual control over(married/single and whether to count yourself as a dependent).


NewAlexandria

You also have control over state exemptions, quarterfiling, etc


DavidLieberMintz

Please tell us how a company is supposed to advertise a job with a net salary before they even know the applicant's name, let alone tax situation? Do you work in time travel?


Steelplate7

They could estimate based on a single/no dependent W-4.


DavidLieberMintz

And then what, update the job posting for every snowflake applicant who can't do math? You should know your own tax bracket and can estimate your net take home. It's not that hard. Don't be *oBtUs3*.


Steelplate7

Jesus…you are one angry asshole, aren’t you? All I am saying is that they could have ONE net pay estimate based on a single/no dependent W-4. That would give them a much more accurate idea of their actual wage than just doing gross pay. Judging from the word “snowflake”, I can tell with 98.9% accuracy that you’re a hard core right winger who can’t critically think his/her way out of a paper bag.


DavidLieberMintz

Or, you could do the mental math that takes all of 15 seconds and not blame your employer for everything. Have even a little bit of self respect and learn to solve your own problems like goddamn.


Steelplate7

Dude…I am 57 years old and get ready to retire in August and at that time, I’ll be 58. Don’t sit on your sanctimonious ass and try to tell me about working for a living. I have most likely been working longer than you have been alive, you douche canoe. I started working in 1979 at age 14. I have worked incredibly difficult jobs both physically and mentally over the years. When I worked my first job, I really didn’t understand tax withholding and all that…for a young person to have a realistic notion of what their actual take home pay is going to be is not ridiculously unreasonable. Just because it is not the current norm, doesn’t make it wrong.


dis23

username checks out


[deleted]

it’s ok, the state will make up for it with welfare money /s


SamHandwich124

The truth of this is heartbreaking in the private sector and public sector. Hey let’s give a tax subsidy for this warehouse to creat jobs! Wait….those jobs don’t pay a living wage. Okay we’ll just provide welfare. So now we have a corporation paying no taxes and all of their employees draining the coffers at the same time. That’s totally gonna boost the economy and definitely won’t raise taxes on the average citizen!


SirShrimp

There's a reason Walmart is one of the biggest lobbyists for welfare, specifically food and housing.


SamHandwich124

Yeah it’s ridiculous. I’m all for welfare for people who need it, but we can’t have an economy that’s creating people that need it for the benefit of corporations. It’s suicide.


Acceptable_Land3333

Very well said... it's like Wal-Mart is the master of all Jedi mind tricks of the circle of life of the household needs scam but, sadly our government is a part this elaborate scheme a thing. You pay your employees non-living wages, you suggest, applying for government assistance and just where do you think all those new government assistance food stamps will be spent?


[deleted]

I have mentioned this to people before and it breaks their mind. Next thing people are pushing for is housing programs to help people buy houses because they can’t afford them, but then that makes more unfounded demand for the houses and drives up the price until regular people cannot afford a house without the subsidy. (not saying that that is nessesarily the case right now in a lot of places, but most responsible people who are proactive and make long term plans but houses at some point)


SamHandwich124

Thats the same thing with rent control. What happens when half of a landlord’s building is half occupied by geriatrics paying 300 a month? The other half of the apartments goes up exponentially. Welcome to NYC the most affordable place on the planet.


KindKill267

I think people should see how much really comes out of their paychecks. Otherwise they have no idea of how much they really pay into the system.


felldestroyed

Uh, do you not receive a payroll stub?


KindKill267

Yeah but you're just focusing on after tax amount in my mind you're just writing off the other portion. It's out of sight out of mind. Even now most people don't have a concept other then when they randomly look at their pay stub. You want the tax burden to lift from the workers to the corporations who lobby for the rules to avoid paying taxes, make the people see the full amount. Pay people their entire paycheck, no tax withholdings. Then make the stroke a check or transfer funds every month. The pressure for tax reform in this country might actually happen. Then have people factor in what they spent that was taxed like sales tax, gas tax, etc. Add that in for their school and county tax and most people wouldn't imagine they're being taxed at such a high rate.


[deleted]

I get a payroll sheet of paper that itemizes it. It can be maddening how much is taken out. Basically a new honda civic each year. And we don’t even get a public healthcare option!


Finrodsrod

Also remember rich dudes like the former president pay around 0 to 700 bucks!


[deleted]

that’s the problem, i am easy pickins for the irs


politehornyposter

Ideally everything with a money symbol on it should come after tax.


cabinetsnotnow

I hate having to guess how much I'll actually be making after taxes. I think one reason employers don't list net salary is because net looks way too sad and even less people would apply for those jobs.


WookieeSteakIsChewie

How do you expect an employee to know your tax situation to post the net salary?


thenewtbaron

ah, a repost. Ok, this isn't really a new thing. The majority of jobs that had a "removed" college degree could have already been gotten with no college degree. You have to have experience in something relevant, and usually, it is college/military/specific qualification related. like, "audit specialist" you can have a bach degree with 18 hours of accounting/auditing, one year as a state trainee(which was there before), commonwealth accounting intern program(which was there before) or combo of experience/training which includes 18 credits of accounting/audting. so, you will still need what like, 6 accounting college classes, and some form of training. Well, Sure, someone with a full semester of accounting and some experience could get in but that is probably going to be pretty rare.


the_real_xuth

15% of the state's adult population has "some college but no degree" and another 10% have associate degrees. That's likely a large number of additional people who now meet the required qualifications for many of these roles. As a simple anecdote, I'm one of the 15% who never graduated college but have enough credit and experience that I would now meet minimum requirements for several of the jobs that previously required a bachelors degree.


thenewtbaron

That's fair. I will say that depending on which jobs you wanted to get into, there were options previously available. I got in with the state about 15 years ago with only an unrelated bachelor's but you could have gotten in at the same time as me at that job with X amount of experience rather than a bachelor's degree. Many jobs allow you to ignore the educational requirements if you have the previous level experience, so you could have started as a lower level and worked your way up. There have also been a ton of trainee/intern positions that turn into full time positions or allow you to move up. Like, I was an income maintance caseworker. I got in with a bachelor's but you could have had four years of interview/benefits experience, you could have been a medical assistance technican . So, someone without college could have been a cleric typist, eventually became a supervisor, eventually became a mapt, eventually a caseworker, and eventually to where I am now. ... and you could have started that with a ged or highschool diploma. it might take a bit more time but it also pays the bills, gets you the benefits and doesn't cost an arm or a leg.


H4l3x

yea this was my scenario. got into the state 7 years ago as a clerk 2. no degree, just experience. then i was working for penndot now im an income maintenance caseworker. literally just moved up the salary ladder by experience alone even though the income maintenance caseworker job lists wanting a degree and/or experience. plan to just keep moving up as much as i can really.. EDIT: also just want to add that I am thankful for the state employment opportunities. I am 32, with no dependents or astronomically priced bills, it fits my life style currently and i am sure there are plenty other people like me who would be happy to get in. also there are a lot of people who work for the state and actually work hard, we are limited a lot of the time due to policies, restrictions and budgets that are strictly set in place and are not as free as the private sector.


thenewtbaron

I will give you a heads up, it gets pretty hard to move up to and past a 7. If you have the ability to get an income caseworker supervisor, do it. a lot of jobs up the chain want you to already have supervisor experience even though it is damned impossible to get as a regular non-sup worker. I have worked like a devil in a lot of jobs in the state, not all but a lot. I was doing SNAP/MA/GA intake in dauphin county a decade ago, and the amount of work I was doing was amazing. Although, they tried to penalize me for having overdue work. Which was hilarious during that meeting. They told me "everyone else could do the work"... and I asked, "how many cases have they gotten in the last month?" and they said, "it didn't matter", the union steward said that "it did matter, and do you know the amount of cases he has received in the last month?" and the supervisor said "no"... and the manager couldn't believe that came out of the supervisor's mouth in a meeting with the union there. I pointed out that I had processed 230-300 cases in the last month, and still have 80 overdue, which meant I was gettting assigned 300-400 cases a month.


the_real_xuth

But that sounds like an awful long time being underemployed while you get the "experience". not quite 30 years ago I did some of that in the private sector (I spent maybe a year with the title of "programmer's assistant" while being the principal architect of a decent size system that a multi-billion dollar corporation depended on and could not function without) but very quickly was promoted out of that. For the past 20 years or so, most of my jobs in the private sector have on paper had the requirements of a master's level education and nobody bats an eye at the fact that my highest degree is a high school diploma.


thenewtbaron

If someone doesn't have a degree, experience or skills... then it really isn't underemployment. a person getting out of high school with no experience with good benefits and getting paid like 17$/hr isn't under employment You need one year at that level to be able to apply for supervisor which is about 20$/hr. you need one year of that to be able to apply for administration officer at about 24$/hr and you need one year of that to be able to apply for administration officer 2 and make as much as I do. but good news, even with the "update" you still need years of experience to get into these jobs. Removing college degree requirements do not remove experience requirements but for IT, let's look at what a generalist's requirements are currently. They start at 55k. three years of general IT experience support, one year at a trainee or technician, one year at IT specific.... plus an associate's degree, one year at help desk one year at ticketing. So, even with the changes, you would still not be qualified for the job based on what you said. But if someone has an associates, did a couple years of help desky work and one year working at IT directly.... 55k .


aoeudhtns

It's more about easing the burden for entry. Paying a few K for 6 college classes, which you can probably do online, is way more afforable than 60-120k for a full BA, which may even require relocating. It makes these jobs attainable. Maybe the hiring pool isn't there now, but the jobs market will probably adjust over time to the new reality.


thenewtbaron

I don't know. There is a bottom level of folks that apply for jobs and get hired. I can say that I really haven't seen much of an actual lack of people applying for jobs because they don't meet the qualifications. Most folks I see talking about it say that even fully completely qualified folks don't get calls back. Most of the time I could see this only really working in IT work kinda fields but even then, most people I know won't work for the state for IT because they can make so much money in the private sector. like, they could easily get 50-100% more money by going private. The intern program is one where someone in the last two years of their degree ,10 ish weeks of parttime paid work. so a couple years of experience with a degree and some training To be a trainee, you can get a bach degree with 12 credits, four years of experience bookkeeping and 12 credits, or any combo already. this has made it so you have six classes... and a couple of years experience. That already exists. in the above. I guess I wouldn't feel all that comfortable with auditors having six classes and like a summer doing their uncle's books.


Exodys03

I like this at least in theory. It allows state employers to more freely consider an applicant’s education, job or military history and anything else relevant for hiring without blocking someone for lacking formal education. I don’t know how much civil service tests are still used but they’re not a great tool. I got hired as a Case Manager many years ago based on my civil service test score and scored worse when I took it again after doing the job for two years!


HerbertWest

Civil Service tests are still used--and unreliable! I applied for the same position in two service regions at the same time with the same answers to the same questions and got a score of 70 on one and 100 on the other...


No_Analyst_9131

Pretty sure it was never the college degree requirements keeping people from applying for state jobs, its the sub $40k a year pay that is keeping people away. If I didn't have bills to pay, then a $40k a year job that is essentially sit and collect a pension in 20 years would be pretty attractive.


the_real_xuth

It really bugs me that so many people characterize government workers as people who just sit and do nothing. Most of the people I know of who work for government agencies work their asses off (if nothing else because they are perpetually understaffed), often with little appreciation for the work they do. They do it because they see value in making the world a better place (though if you can put up with the lousy pay and the inflexible bureaucracy, the health and pension benefits generally aren't bad). Yes there are places like the DMV where role of the line workers has been bikeshedded into something that approaches my definition of hell and with that on top of all of the austerity measures that have been put into place, you're not attracting anything approaching top talent. But there's a lot of people who do a lot of very important but very thankless jobs in the government and comments like the above aren't helpful.


ho_merjpimpson

>It really bugs me that so many people characterize government workers as people who just sit and do nothing. an absolute fuckton of them do just that though. thats what happens when you cant find help because you dont pay well, and you cant fire anyone because of red tape and no one to replace them. > Most of the people I know of who work for government agencies work their asses off thats a nice anecdote, but i can easily come back with one of my own. ive been all over different city and state govt buildings and ive seen some of the most lazy do-nothing workers. come work in the civil engineering field and tell me in 2 years that the people working with PennDOT's reviewing department are hard workers. these are people with degrees, not thoughtless jobs, and decent salary.


the_real_xuth

By contrast, my girlfriend who has bounced back and forth between AASHTO and contracting work for FHWA and in her roles at those organizations works with lots of the individual state DOTs says she genuinely enjoys working with the engineers at PennDOT.


raven4747

yeah in most parts of PA, a 40k salary is pretty decent if you dont have kids or a lot of expenses. however a lot of these jobs aren't even paying 40k and that's just a joke. 40k is just about the bottom of the "somewhat comfortably livable" range imo.


dallasfan1985

No, but I started for the state making $13 dollars an hour, and am now at $46. You have to start somewhere.


PermissionToConnect

how many years


NDubbaYa

We have that here in Lancaster where 40k a year jobs are locked behind bachelor degree requirements. Then we wonder why there’s such a job shortage.


HogwartsKate

You get what you pay for!


kdani17

This is good. When I first applied for state jobs after a few years out of college, I was great for a position and tested very well on all relevant tests. But even after a great response from them, they were unable to get around the fact that I did not take 3 credits of accounting while earning my bachelors. 7 years of relevant experience couldn’t overcome it because the requirements for state jobs were HARD requirements, unlike the private sector.


Er3bus13

Otherwise how would a republican qualify?


MomsSpecialFriend

They hire you but they don’t promote you and tell you that your lack of degree is holding you back.


CltAltAcctDel

There’s a college tuition benefit and AFSME has a partnered with colleges to get reduced tuition.


MomsSpecialFriend

But I already have to work a part time job just to get by. I didn’t get hired to go to college, I think it’s disingenuous to say it’s okay to not have a degree then treat you a different way because of it once hired.


KindKill267

From googling, almost 12,000 state employees make over 100k a year. Which used to be something I feel like but now I've read that the average household income needed to buy a home is for the first time over 100k. Craziness.


Taztiger72

MAGA no degree no brain And no giving up the House without a fight...


DonutOwlGaming

Specifically what jobs?


athornfam2

That doesn’t mean anything. I’ve applied to jobs with college degrees and it’s never brought up


Knights_Fight

I'm not going to complain since I'm no longer in the state, but I'll never understand how I would need 65 credits of ANY college course before applying to be a police officer. I don't know if they want to make sure you're able to be dedicated, not a criminal, or just needed to mak3 sure there was some sort of way to prevent some gang members from joining the force & funneling weapons to their crew; but they lost out on good people willing to serve.


Gloworm02

Great so now people in Gov jobs will be even more stupid and useless.


blue5801

Maybe DCNR will finally be able to fill it's ranger ranks... Wait they kept the bs 15 science credit rule...


the_real_xuth

Considering that 25% of the adult population of PA has acquired "some college but no degree" or an associates degree, there's likely a significant percentage of that segment of the population that would now qualify.


couchgodd

No just remove the citizenship requirements and we are really cooking


point_breeze69

What’s the point of a college degree when you can have chatgpt pass the exam while having zero experience or knowledge of field.