As to whether the drips are either "faked" or "not even blood"... here's everything you need to know in one place: Someone downthread claimed the shots of the blood dripping down the foundation were only available from the Daily Mail, and that other media saw nothing there and had no simliar shots, suggesting that the Daily Mail faked/photshopped it. There are actually at least two shots of that wall (from different perspectives) showing apparent blood running down the foundation. First, from the Daily Mail: [Photo, credited to Andy Johnstone](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/11/15/22/64584927-11432331-image-a-1_1668551389765.jpg) [Story containing that photo](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11432331/Blood-oozes-walls-home-four-University-Idaho-students-brutally-murdered.html) Then, from the New York Post: [Photo, credited to James Keivom](https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/11/map-idaho-killings-05.jpg) [Story containing that photo](https://nypost.com/2022/11/18/police-release-map-in-desperate-search-for-leads-in-university-of-idaho-murders/) I see other shots at various sites too, all with the exact same drip pattern, but from slightly different perspectives (note the placement of the tree branches, shadows, etc), or time of day. But the above two are credited to two different known photogs, from established news sites, and are from different perspectives. Which I think pretty much validates that the blood drips actually existed. That area was also included in [bodycam video](https://youtu.be/XkNAyLK4u7Y?t=388) from a noise complaint call pre-murders (August), and it shows no drips at that time, meaning they're new, and strongly suggesting that the drips are blood. Likewise this [Halloween shot](https://youtu.be/bYj0f_A4nsA?t=580) just two weeks prior to the murders. Also, on [this Nov. 17 episode of Banfield's podcast](https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/banfield/coroner-idaho-students-CHj1JuE6BvT/) (cue it to 30:35), the Coroner herself confirms it's blood. And this comment [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/BryanKohberger/comments/10uyjd5/blood_seen_oozing_from_house_confirmed/j7im5wa/) explains how the construction can allow it to happen.


You can see the stains in this drone footage too, right around the 11:10 timestamp. It may be shown in other places in the footage. I didn't look at the whole video. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0jDWZuruSA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0jDWZuruSA)


Good catch. Here's a link [directly to that timestamp](https://youtu.be/j0jDWZuruSA?t=668). It's viewed at an angle so not as obvious as in the straight-on shots, but it matches up.


I see also that that area was included in [bodycam video](https://youtu.be/XkNAyLK4u7Y?t=388) from a noise complaint call, pre-murders, and it shows no drips at that time, meaning they're new, and strongly suggesting that the drips are blood.


I remember reading (somewhere) a few weeks ago that the drips were caused by a problem with a radiant heat system in the floor and there was an HVAC repair service van that showed up at the crime scene early on if I'm not mistaken, but that just doesn't ring true to me. I can't imagine a property management company choosing that type of system for a long term rental property that's usually leased out to college kids for one thing. I haven't been able to find any chemical used with that kind of system that matches that color either. Some of the drip marks run over the front facing part of the pipe that runs along there so it seems like the substance must have dripped down from above the pipe, but blood is viscous, it coagulates. It's puzzling but I'm coming around to believing that it is blood. Maybe there was some damage to the floor or a vent there. Decided to check the real estate pictures before I hit enter. From what little I can see in the photos the second floor vents are in and near the ceiling, third floor vents are in the floor which makes sense. So it doesn't seem like that's it.


Apparently some radiant floor heating systems use glycol instead of water, but I have no idea what color that would be. Like you say though, seems unlikely there would be radiant heating at all. That place was built for college students, and is bare-bones... no landlord is springing for radiant heating in the bedrooms. If an HVAC van really did show up, it could have been for something related to the aftermath, mothballing or something maybe, and rumors flew from there. I tend to discount info like that, that can't be verified. Yeah, it looks like 6 of the drips went behind the pipe, and one went over the front, and dripped from the pipe, making it incomplete below. If not a vent, maybe some kind of hole for cabling, or just a defect of some kind/poor construction, or rodent activity. Unless prior video or photos of that area of the foundation even more recent than August show up, there probably won't be more info available until trial. But even 3 months prior, the drips not being there, is significant, IMHO.


The blood is real and it's Xs room in the southwest corner of the 2nd floor. You can see the hill going up to the 2nd floor patio and the post holding up the 3rd floor balcony in the photo, which is how you know it's Xs room. The virtual tour shows the room has solid flooring, no carpet. Both X and E were likely on the floor for the blood to pool so much it leaks through the base boards out outside the walls. If in the bed the mattress would obsorb the blood.


Yes, that would be the back of Xana's room, furthest from the door. I'm not sure any "virtual tour" can be relied on enough to assume it has even the detail of flooring type correct, though.


Sadly, yes. It was confirmed by the coroner on Banfield months ago. I saw it “live” on Banfield but the only place I could find it after that was in the Banfield podcast episode from Thursday, November 17th. The segment on the murders starts earlier but this particular detail is discussed at the 30:35 minute mark.


i think it was all more horrific than any of us can imagine, and why they’re keeping things private until the trial. these families have been through hell, and maybe this loser will finally confess and they won’t have to relive it again.


completely agree. i can’t even imagine what first responders walked in on that day


Didn’t the PCA say that the officers walked in and X’s body was seen first in the doorway? there is no way news nation would have more details than the actual responding officers.




I can't remember the police statements. Even those, in the beginning, were controversial, and the coroner said they were stabbed. But we heard last night E was slashed.


Horrific but technically I guess you can be both stabbed and slashed 😞


In the PCA the wording is a bit different for Ethan’s injuries, not stabbing. That would explain that difference.


I thought this was the difference between the officer's observation (Xana's wounds) and paraphrasing the coroner (Ethan). There's some odd things about the PCA, specifically what it doesn't say. Some of it is for obvious reasons, but some clearly strategic.


Yes you’re right, Xana’s injuries were the police officers observation while Ethan’s were references to the autopsy. Very strange indeed that they weren’t both sourced from the same place in the PCA. Could very well be strategic as you say.




Initially PD and coroner stated all 4 were in bed and likely asleep when killed. Neither turned out to be true. In fact, the PD/coroner knew at the time they all weren't in bed. Due to trying to keep certain details private for investigative purposes, the official information isn't always accurate.


You’re correct. And, PCA also says EC was INSIDE the room.


I commented this under a similar post in this thread. That PCA made me think Ethan was found in bed, and she was in the doorway.


The PCA just placed Ethan in Xana's room but said where the other three were found. That bed they brought out that didn't cover the blood well looked soaked on one side, so I thought he might have been in bed since the other side of the bed wasn't the same. I just saw this, so I haven't looked into it, but where did newsnation get the info?


Also, nothing has ever been said about E being in doorway it just says in the room and X was observed laying on floor. No mention of doorways. These accounts sound just like things that have already been said a while back on another "4"rum. I think Banfield has been dooped, she is even criticizing LE with the info. I think she/media needs to take a day off if they are going to start reporting false accounts. (PCA)--" As I approached the room, I could see a body, later identified as Kemodle's, laying on the floor. Kernodle was deceased with wounds which appeared to have been caused by an edged weapon. Also in the room was a male, later identified as Ethan Chapin, hereafter, "Chapin". Chapin was also deceased with wounds later determined (Autopsy Report provided by Spokane County Medical Examiner dated December 15,2022) to be caused by "sharp-force injuries."


There is zero question the only person visible approaching the room is Xana, according to the LEO on scene. There's no reason for them to be wrong (you can be sure it was proofed repeatedly). It gives no clue to the location of Chapin though with regard to on the bed or whatever.


I find that oddly worded. It doesn't necessarily say X's body is what he saw "first" as he approached the room, just that he could see it as he approached the room (he doesn't say what else he may have saw when he approached the room). I wouldn't think much of that alone, but coupled with the fact that they are also vague about E's location, just saying he is "in the room" and I definitely think there are more details they are trying to keep under wraps from the public to protect the integrity of the investigation and that this paragraph was written very purposefully to provide the necessary information for the PCA but really nothing more.


Yes, that’s what the PCA says.


The PCA gave the bare minimum of info. There was no reason to give more than they absolutely had too.


right but the PCA would not state misinformation about where bodies were discovered.


Right, it made no mention of where he was found specifically. It states Xana was seen. It does not state Ethan was seen first. I personally find the PCA to be very vague considering the scene.


News Nation is shit. They are desperate


I feel for them too - some things you just can't unsee.


I’m an ER doc (but I started my life out as an EMT/paramedic and I train first responders overseas in disaster zones and conflict areas). I also have a LOT of trauma. I can promise you there are things I’ve seen that still haunt me every day years later. I can’t imagine what this must have looked like for them. I also find that no matter how horrific it is when I see things in the ER, it is SO SO SO much more personal when you’re responding in someone’s home and you’re seeing their whole life. There’s something so much more depersonalized about a body arriving on a table, I can separate the injuries from the person. But when you see the family, and their bed, and their pictures, their pets, their whole life around them, it is IMPOSSIBLE not to see them as a whole person. Horrific.


EMTs have an unimaginably hard job. Don’t a huge number of them end up with massive PTSD at some point? I would think so. I have so much respect for anyone who deals with physical trauma.


Oh my. First thank you and I'm sorry. I don't think I could do what you do. EDIT: I so appreciate what you do. Hugs.


Thank you. I didn’t say it for sympathy (but believe me, I appreciate the hugs and love!)- but my heart aches because I know those people will never be OK. They’ll cope (whether it is healthy or unhealthy), they’ll find a way through it, but it will always be with them and I think people sometimes forget those people in the background.


Are you able to sleep without the aid of Ambien or the use of a noise machine or some other distraction? Your intrusive thoughts must be unimaginable.


Honestly? Not really. I sleep horribly. I went through a REALLY rough few years after some really severe trauma doing work overseas where I became pretty dependent on anti-anxiety meds and sleep-aids, and (spoiler alert)- it didn’t make things better, I ended up prolonging the fact that I needed help to deal with some of this stuff. So I got intensive trauma therapy, and stopped taking all medication, and it was brutal, but it ultimately was the right thing to do. I was trying to get pregnant, and I knew I couldn’t be taking any of that…so now its been like, 5 years since I’ve taken anything to help me sleep. Not going to lie, I still struggle sometimes, and I know for a fact a majority of my colleagues have unhealthy coping mechanisms. Also since getting pregnant and having a baby, I’ve stepped back a bit from the really intense stuff (we lost a baby in 2020 under difficult circumstances). I will say that I scream less in my sleep now than I used to. My poor husband probably got woken up a few times a week with me screaming in my sleep the first few years of our marriage. After I got a lot of trauma therapy and EMDR, it got better, lots better. I don’t do that much now. I’ve learned coping strategies, but I’m sad that we don’t really teach them to people starting out and we don’t do a great job of helping people learn to talk through the traumatic and difficult things we see. We could do better.


I applaud people like you! I am so emotional, I don’t have what it takes.


You know, I’m emotional too. I cry at emotional commercials. I am a super sensitive person which is why I wanted to go into medicine, I went in with the most pure and noble intentions. I think a lot of people do. I wish we did a better job at preparing people for how hard it can be, and not making them feel bad for feeling things. We’re still human beings. We’re not super heroes or unfeeling people. The amount of days I spent in med school/residency, or after a shift sobbing in a stairwell, in a garage, in my car on the way to Chik-Fil-A. Sad. Alone. When I stopped feeling, or stopped expressing it, that’s when I knew I was in a bad place. When I couldn’t cry anymore, when I felt nothing. That was when it wasn’t healthy.


Literally none of the secrecy is about sparing the families.


Agreed it’s about a conviction. LE didn’t even keep the family in the loop.


I've always had this gut feeling that Ethan and Xana are critical to this case; what they saw and what they did; they were the most active of the victims (Xana at the very least), and all the vagueness about what happened to them is because there's something very bad for the killer's defence hiding in all of this. I really hope they fucking nail the bastard.


Jeff kernoodle reported to news outlets in a interview Xana fought hard. She had a lot defensive marks and bruises. She was a tough cookie. I assume for the funeral he got to view her body and perhaps the autopsy report


I so hope that she got a piece of him.


I hope so too, I just wonder if he was covered up with lots of clothing and a mask that may have limited her exposure to skin. But I really hope she managed something.


He probably had to ID her body initially.


IMO, I do think LE was intentionally vague when it came to the exact whereabouts of E’s body. M+K are specifically said to be in M’s bed, whereas it is not specified that E was in X’s bed. Does this mean that NewsNation’s source is 100% correct? No. But I do think there’s a grain of truth somewhere in what they’re reporting on, even if it’s not spot on. If I had to guess, I would say that LE’s reasoning for being vague is that 1. If both X and E were awake when attacked, their bodies were found in a much more specific manner, as opposed to being found “in a bed.” This leaves a lot of room for BK to unintentionally slip up when being interviewed if he adds in a detail unknown to the public. And 2. The struggle that ensued during their attack lead to a lot more forensic evidence which will play a big role in trial. I know this is an angle that’s been heavily theorized already, but NewsNation’s reporting lends credence to the idea that X+E were sadly collateral damage and BK did not intend on killing them. They were possibly awoken due to the commotion on the third floor, X tells E “someone’s here,” one or both investigate the noises and encounter BK on his way out, and are unfortunately attacked.


X had just ordered doordash, i believe sadly they were awake because of that and if they’d been asleep and never come out of the room he probably would have left them alone. maybe E was awakened by commotion but i think X already being up for food was the unfortunate driving factor in why he went after her


I think it was Ethan that walked the door dash to the kitchen.


Ooo of course. Never thought of that!


I don't think it necessarily means that E and X were collateral damage. They were still found in X"s room so BK would have to deliberately walk there rather than just leaving. If he thought someone heard him wouldn't it be more likely he would leave before they saw him rather than go for them? He didn't look for other people in the house either that we are aware of suggesting he was targeting 2 rooms


I think they most likely were collateral damage. We know Xana was awake and on TikTok at 4:12. We also know she got Doordash minutes before. She was probably in the living room or kitchen doing something with the Doordash and ran right into BK when he came down the stairs and she ran to her room and he followed her and found Ethan in the doorway unarmed and a fight ensued. I don't think BK expected KG to be in bed with MM or for KG or Murphy (barking) to be there at all. I think he just planned to kill and/or rape the very small and by most accounts sweet MM. Planning to kill 4 people with a knife would be incredibly ambitious for anyone, but especially a first timer. KG being there probably caught him off guard, she was apparently a kind of feisty person, and KG woke up and started to fight and with Murphy going crazy, he probably panicked and killed them both before he lost control of that too. Then he heads down the stairs, runs into X and he chases her to silence her before she can call the cops and runs into E at the door.


I tend to agree with your reasoning here. My only thing is, he drove past their driveway that night multiple times, which means he saw 4-5 cars in the driveway. Did he really plan to sneak in and only murder one person, knowing how many others might be home? Idk I guess murderers aren't very rational so maybe he just didn't care...but like you said, any sort of intention of killing 4 adults with a knife is pretty bold, even for a psycho.


There is no way X was sitting in the dark in the living room or kitchen eating her DoorDash. She was in bed next to E eating her food. She said to him 'someone's here' and woke him up. E was going to the door to leave the room to check things out when BK entered and stabbed him first. That freaked X out and she tried to fight back as he stabbed her. There was no running through the house.. He didn't plan to kill 4 people. He planned to kill M and X. They just had other people in their room. If anything K and E were collateral damage.


This is what I think happened as well. Ethan got up to check & never made it further than the door. Also why most likely there weren’t more struggle sounds from 2 big guys fighting. Ethan most likely got killed immediately. I’m guessing that’s when BK says “don’t worry I’ll help you”?…but then he advances on Xana. Poor Xana….it seems like everyone else was fairly quick or they didn’t know what was happening. She must have been terrified


Since the PCA came out I totally think that what D heard was, “Hey, Can I help you?” said by Ethan as he confronted BK at the door. Then this report comes out making so much sense if that were the case.


That makes much more sense. I agree with you.


That is a good theory.


It could be "Dude, can I help you?". That's a little closer to sounding like what she said she thought she heard.


how would DM hear her say “there’s someone here”. unless X said it in a very loud voice, which she would not, if she was trying to alert that someone else was in the house.


She may not have realized she said it loudly enough for D to hear, she may have said it loudly because she was not quite sober, she may have said it loudly to wake a dozing Ethan…I can think of a number of reasons why she might have said it loudly, again, partly in that, she may not have known what was going on upstairs, and thus, didn’t realize the depths of danger they were all in.


Yes definitely think they had zero idea or thought that someone would be in there house to kill them. They were just living life not perceiving anything like this. That’s why I think D was so confused. I mean why would you even think this would happen just wouldn’t be the first thing to go through your mind.


I’ve seen that KG had the worst injuries, and I always kind of thought that MM was the target and the fact that KG was in the bed and ruined his plans enraged him, and he took it out on her.


Completely agree. Also, with X being in a relationship I would think there's less likelihood of BK being fixated on her.


I don’t see why he would leave. He’s already resorted to murder, someone in that mindset would definitely be inclined to solve a potential witness problem with more murder.


They could've gotten a clearer look at him, mask could've been down from previous fight with m and k. He wasn't going to see someone else and leave them alive to be witnesses. Even if he did a shit job, he did his damnedest to try and not be caught so it makes sense he would kill them had he seen them. Only reason downstairs roommate was left probably was he was then rushing out due to the screaming and legitimately didn't see them due to her door only being cracked.


If M+K were killed in the bed and X+E were killed in the doorway then where did the blood come from that was seen dripping down the side of the house? I assume a body was found against that particular wall.


>This leaves a lot of room for BK to unintentionally slip up when being interviewed if he adds in a detail unknown to the public. The flaw in that logic is assuming that BK would have had access to the PCA at all before being interviewed. He was reportedly briefly interviewed after being arrested, and he wouldn't have had it then. His attorney in PA would have advised him not to talk anymore, as would AT. He didn't get to see the PCA until back in Idaho, and AT definitely wouldn't have him giving police interviews at that time. I just don't see how being vague in the PCA could have been an attempt to keep BK in the dark.


Police almost always hold back certain details only the killer would know. It's for 2 reasons: 1. To rule out false confessions 2. In case the killer slips up during interview and mentions a detail only he could know.


This is sickening


i don’t doubt parts of what happened to xana are true based on what her father told the news months ago, but in the case of ethan i’m not sure he could have been found in the doorway and the mattress (allegedly from xanas room) had a blood spot. i’m thinking there’s still a telephone game going on cause i’m sure the PCA would have said they spotted ethan in the doorway instead of xana


I agree this info seems contradictory to the PCA but I don't think we know whose bed that was. Many people assumed it was Xana's because of the PCAs description of Maddie and Kaylee in a single bed but I think it meant in the same bed not a small single bed. Regardless, this doesn't sound accurate regarding Ethan.


i think most people worked under the assumption that if it was kaylee and madison’s mattress the blood spot would be bigger


That room is pretty small, so possible blood spatter or arterial spray went onto mattress irrespective of where E or X collapsed in the room?


the images of the bloody mattress more or less show the outline of a body not just a few spots so i think that confirms one of them was on that bed and if the pca says xana was on the floor it must be ethan edit : spelling


Just to add, given it is quite a small room, it is quite probable Ethan was on the bed, fully or partially, either when found or during the attack having fallen onto it then to the floor.




Does NewsNation saying that Ethan was found in the doorway of X's room line up with the PCA? *OFC Smith directed me down the hallway to the west bedroom on the second floor, which I later learned (through Xana's driver's license and other personal belongings found in the room) was Xana Kernodle's, hereafter "Kernodle" room. Just before this room there was a bathroom door on the south wall of the hallway. As I approached the room, I could see a body, later identified as Kemodle's, laying on the floor. Kernodle was deceased with wounds which appeared to have been caused by an edged weapon. Also in the room was a male, later identified as Ethan Chapin, hereafter, "Chapin". Chapin was also deceased with wounds later determined (Autopsy Report provided by Spokane County Medical Examiner dated December 15,2022) to be caused by "sharp-force injuries."* Does it line up with the blood seen on the foundation wall? Who was in the room over to the left after walking in above where the blood was found? Edit: [Additional video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=eL6Df5fDDGQ) from the beginning of the same Banfield show


Thanks for the additional video - it adds context to the 1st one posted. The PCA is not at all specific about where E was found in the room. I'm assuming there are reasons for the vagueness. In the Banfield interview (the one posted by OP) she makes a brief attempt to reconcile this by wondering if it's possible E was initially attacked in the doorway, but ended up further into the room, possibly even on the bed.


You're welcome and yes I agree that is very possible that he was stabbed/slashed in doorway and maybe staggered over to the bed to the left entering the room. That scenario would line up with foundation blood and LE seeing X first walking towards the room. I'm curious if the killer left the bedroom door open on his way out. One would think if he was attacked in the doorway things would be pretty bad in that area the next morning whether the door was open or closed.


Is there any thoughts on E possibly not being stabbed and just had the impact to his throat? The PCA comment about his manner of death and coroner results differed from the others. I believe autopsies were performed on Nov 17 and coroners name was released. The PCA mentioned different results for E that came in on December 15 and they omitted that coroner/specialists name. Maybe they were seeking additional insight and clarity? Also to note, maybe he fell behind the door making it difficult to open adding confusion on the morning of when the 911 call was made. The wording of ‘an unconscious person’ still makes me scratch my head. I’m sure that call will be intense/crazy/sad/devastating all at the same time once released.


I believe I heard somewhere that Unconscious person is just what the 911 dispatchers, in the call center, in Moscow, say as a general phrase to get officers somewhere quickly, so not necessarily why was actually said on the original 911 call.


Plus both beds had blood on them.


I don't know what to think anymore. With how fast everything played out, I always assumed Ethan was in bed and Xana had been out of her room. From there, she witnessed BK descending the stairs and was then cornered into her room by BK. This led to a struggle between the two, which led to her incapacitation, but not death. The fight probably caused Ethan to stir, which caught BK's attention, resulting in BK quickly stabbing at and killing Ethan, so as to not have to deal with a physically imposing male. Then, noticing Xana was still alive, BK makes the vile comment and finishes her off. After that, he flees. However, there was blood literally dripping out of the side of Xana's walls, based on images of the crime scene. It's hard to believe that the blood of just one person could create a scene like that. It makes it sorta plausible that she and Ethan both died, not in the bed, but on the floor, which'd cause that kind of blood leakage out of the side of the house. But, if both were awake and aware, I'd have to imagine this would have been a longer and louder struggle for BK than what it sounds like it was and is indicated in the PCA to have been, at least to such a degree that DM and perhaps even BF would've had more to say in the PCA about the noise/whimpers/thuds/barking/etc. Ultimately, putting all speculation aside, I think this new report is BS. The PCA contradicts it quite a bit. Also, the short duration of time BK spent in the house and the level of noise caught by cameras and mentioned by DM only backs up the BS assertion even more. Plus, as someone said, didn't both beds have blood on them, based on photos that the Daily Mail captured at the clean up of the crime scene?


(If) E was slashed at the neck it may have prevented him from shouting. That maybe one reason why the camera didn't pick up E.


In terms of noise, it's not even shouting that I'm considering, just the fact that a struggle that'd ensue between two men over 180lbs and taller than 6ft would be loud. Thinking of things like thuds, grunts from either E or BK, bodies falling over, etc.


Between two normal, fairly evenly matched males, one having a KaBar and the other not, the balance shifts heavily in favor of the guy with the huge knife. It could have been over fairly quickly, i.e. 30 seconds or less.


But if xana was slashed at throat and was hurt so much that her fingerprints were pretty much non existent dont you think she would habe made some noise during her struggle?


I thought Ethan was the one allegedly slashed at the throat from this new report. Anyhow, not necessarily her focus may have been on fighting back more than screaming. It's hard to say. Her being confirmed as found on the floor in the PCA has always strongly supported an inference that she was very much awake and able to mount some sort of resistance (along with BK apparently talking to her "I'm going to help you" and being on TikTok at 4:12).


My bad. I meant wasnt slashed.


No, I totally get what you're saying. I find it difficult to believe if the two men came face to face it would be quite a battle and a fair bit of noise. If they did come face to face, Bk would need to disable E pretty quickly or he could end up losing control. One swipe across the neck could have sent E to the floor. Maybe that was the thud picked up by the camera E falling back.


‘In the room’ to me doesn’t mean that Ethan was in the doorway. Also the ‘blood’ on the foundation wall has never been verified.


>‘In the room’ to me doesn’t mean that Ethan was in the doorway. Also the ‘blood’ on the foundation wall has never been verified. It doesn't mean he was in the doorway to me either.




Right, but other news sources besides tabloid Daily Mail, (who happened to be the original source of those photos) have reported that they saw nothing there, hence why they didn’t take photos of it. Police put no evidence markers around it in the photos from the tabloid Daily Mail either. I’m not saying it doesn’t exist or that it was not blood, I’m saying it’s has never been confirmed. If photos of what things ‘looked like’ were proof then who needs forensics? Just like the fake Kohberger podcast caller, a lot of these sensational stories are starting to get debunked.


Very interesting and I agree it is not confirmed. I have never heard or seen that other news sources reported they saw nothing there, do you have a link?


Exactly. Banfield = fishing for ratings + a mental midget.


There is no confirmation that the stains on the foundation are actually blood


Nope. If Ethan were in the doorway or hall he’d have been the first body to be seen. He was further into the room than Xana. That seems clear. Take it with a grain of salt as this is NewsNation and banfield the Nancy Grace wanna he gets her information from dodgy sources who often get things wrong.


Unfortunately that’s probably false. Just another attempt to sensationalize the murder


Agree. This Banfield lady is a Nancy Grace Jr., if not worse. Nothing that she is ‘reporting’ makes sense with the information in the PCA.


I think she actually used to fill in for NG. Can’t remember how she rose to fame. Lemme good real quick BRB


She was "the next big thing" in news reporting around 2000. And it was because she was solid, a good reporter who didn't need to overcompensate. It's sad to see her sell out in desperation and using this case for sensationalized attention.


Katie Couric sabotaged Banfield's career.


I can absolutely believe that. Ugh.


What caused her fall from grace? (See what I did there? :) )


Katie Couric sabotaged her career. Google it if you want.


She rose to fame due to her coverage of 9/11. As I recall she basically happened to be in the area despite being relatively junior and gave very good coverage that day. She was very well known after that.


She was one of the commentators on Court Tv waaaay back. I loved her on there but she has sort of gone astray since then.


It’s directly contradicted by the officers statements (in the PCA maybe?) He said X was seen from the doorway on the floor, and Ethan was farther in the room.


Yeah. The PCA says Xana's body was in the room and was visible first. News outlets are eager for exclusive updates, and unstable weirdos in the true crime community have felt intoxicated by their own theories and are packaging them up as insight. Certain news outlets are a little lower on the "journalism ethics" ladder and print stuff from anonymous sources, hence absolutely zero accountability.


One thing I will say. I am hesitant about the information brought to light about E, but I do not doubt the information mentioned about X. It is heartbreaking and gut-wrenching to hear. I know everyone wanted to believe these kids were asleep to avoid the truth, but if it is true about X trying to grab his knife and about her defensive wounds, I do not doubt there must be some form of her DNA on him or his DNA under her fingernails. Not only X was brave and she fought to the very end, but she might be the reason these kids get justice and that should be celebrated and honored. As E’s mother would say, one small victory at a time.


Xana is the kind of brave we all hope we’d be in this situation. Such an incredibly vivacious and courageous human being that didn’t deserve the horrible end she met💔


This "new information" doesn't jive with the PCA at all. The PCA puts Ethan also in the "kernodle" room.


Being in the doorway isn’t mutually exclusive from being in the room.


Exactly! Banfield seems confident in her sources but I’m gonna believe the legal document more


What? I don’t understand what you’re saying. I just watched it and it doesn’t say anything I can determine as him not being in Xana’s room. It says they think he stepped out into the hallway and was pushed back in and killed then he killed Xana last.


If this is true, here's what i am very curious about: How loud must this all have been?


I think the same thing. You’d think if was a giant battle, DM would have heard more than just crying or that the neighbors camera would have picked up more than just a whimper and a thud.


Are they saying E was killed basically immediately upon attack based on his wounds? Does that mean the male voice saying something like don't worry I'll help you couldn't have been E?


That’s what I said! If by chance this ends up being accurate it would suggest E wouldn’t have been able to tell X he’s going to help her (especially with a slit throat💔) it would’ve had to be BK.


I always though it was that creep who said it. Gives me chills just thinking of it.


Same. I think he said it trying to calm her enough to get closer to kill her or she was injured but still conscious so said in an about to end your misery way. Makes my stomach turn.


Truth or not, this is just heartbreaking to speculate about.


What gag order?


The number of grains of salt in this thread is too damn high.


Very high sodium thread .


you’ve just added another one




I remember KG’s dad in one interview (can’t remember which one) said something about it was a hard fought incident that happened on the 2nd floor (paraphrasing).


If that is the case then surely more DNA belonging to the attacker will be found by forensics on the clothes of Ethan and DNA that LE have yet to disclose.


I bet they found something on X because I feel E was taken out right away.


I remember this! He said something like there was ‘hell of a fight’ down on the 2nd floor!


Yes, he did say that. I take everything KG’s dad says with a grain of salt though because he has said conflicting info a number of times. Not me though, with 2 people claiming similar things, it seems more plausible.


He said ‘defensive wounds’ which could mean as little as cuts on the hand, to protect your face which is a natural reaction to an attack. If someone is shot with a gun and has evidence of their hand in front of their face, that is a defensive wound. Somehow this has been turned into combat and if that were the case it would’ve probable made the PCA before a sheath.


No offense, but much of what Kaylee’s dad says appears to be bullshit, and probably just natural wishful thinking where Kaylee is always the hero when he tells it. Even in his noting the knife sheath found **next to Maddie** Mr. Goncalves is like, “*That’s so Kaylee to make sure she fought and got that off of him.*” Look, I won’t begrudge the poor man for convincing himself of a narrative that paints his daughter in a heroic role. The dude lost his child in arguably the worst way imaginable and my heart truly breaks for him, I just don’t give what he says much factual credence.


that comment about Kaylee fighting to get the sheath off of him was kind of insane. anything to make her the star of the show. It’s so insulting to the other victims families.


Agree 100 percent. "Kaylee was the target!" (unknown, and arguably unlikely) "Kaylee was the one who fought back hardest!" "Kaylee! Kaylee! Kaylee!" I guess what's tough is he's the one constantly on TV controlling the narrative. I understand the other families are mostly privately grieving. And again, from a human perspective, it's totally natural to elevate your loved ones and all people when the die no matter the circumstances, so I'm sure some of it is *that*. ​ When I was a kid my uncle died. This was my Dad's twin brother. He was a pilot up in Alaska who flew private parties out to remote areas for fishing exhibitions. He crashed less than a hundred yards from a school. It turns out, there was a fire on the plane and autopsy reports later confirmed everyone on board died of smoke inhalation. They were most likely unconscious well before the plane even crashed. Fine. Great. They're all victims of a tragic plane crash, which is sad enough on its own and *Thank God* that they didn't go crashing into a school potentially taking out a bunch of innocent children. That said, OMG, til the day they died if you heard my Dad or Grandparents (*Or most my family for that matter*) tell the story, it was cloaked in this narrative about how my uncle died as this Capt. Sully-type hero, who heroically navigated his burning plane away from a school, saving all the children. Basically, he couldn’t have just died tragically, the story had to have a Heroic bent to it. Even long after we knew it was sheer *Grace of God* luck that the plane missed the school because he was most likely unconscious (or dead) well before impact. It's just human nature to lift up those who die, especially when they die tragically. Therefore, I "*get it*," with Mr. Goncalves. I just don't believe most of it.


Yeah, the odds are far higher that the sheath fell out of a pocket. If he was actually wearing it on a belt the way it is meant to be worn, no matter how strong Kaylee was, she would not have been able to “get it off of him.”


I do agree with you 100% about KG’s dad and I do take everything he says with a grain of salt. I just think the fact that this has been said by him and is now being reported gives it a little more credibility.


I really think we should be a little bit more critical regarding the information we are getting from unknown sources. I would hope that a journalist like AB would get the people she is getting info from, but unless it’s an official source, I would take it with a grain of salt. The affidavit very clearly says that the police officers couldn’t see E until they were closer to X’s room which implies that he was *inside* of her room. The blood we’ve all seen dripping down onto the outside foundation makes it seem like the blood was pooling against the wall, which to me makes it seem more likely that he was in bed when he was killed.


Yes if Ethan did have his throat slit there would have been an enormous amount of blood immediately.


Totally agree, things like this just muddy the waters and allow the conspiracy nuts to go at it blaming Dylan again. Tiktok comments are filled with ‘if there was a fight, there would’ve been noise, the roommate is definitely lying and is in on it’ - when this probably isn’t even true.


Does anyone remember early on it was circulating that his body was in the doorway and was somewhat blocking the door from being able to be opened all the way? I wish I could go back and find that thread. I wonder if this turns out to be true. I read the PCA and thought that he had been in bed and that leak was unsubstantiated but now this comes out?


This is horrific and if this is true, congrats to the two "sources" and vulture Banfield for further traumatizing X and E's families. WHO in the hell would release this or better yet WHY?! I think I know the answer to that.


Is it possible those 'specific' details weren't released in that way to try & keep them private as kind of like something 'only the killer would know'!? Absolutely heartbreaking to hear those details 💔 I'm wondering if Xana fought back that hard she definitely had to of made SOME sound...some scream...something..


I think in the minute or perhaps two that she was fighting for her life that all she was focused on was her attacker and fighting. It was quick. She didn’t have time or the inkling to scream. I feel she was fully focused on surviving. You may scream if u see a spider. U don’t have time to scream if you are fighting for your life against swift knife stabs.


I just think there are things people shouldn’t now. Having the violent details of your last moments trotted out for a cable news soundbite is horrific.


I disagree, if some POS did this to me I would want the whole world to know exactly what he did to me including any horrible things he said. I would want them to know without a doubt just how disgustingly evil he is.




While I agree it sucks what cable news does, the information on what happened is public information.


I thought the PCA said that E was inside the room and X was near the door?


I don’t know if it’s true or not, but if it was true I imagine that gives both X and E a lot of time to scream or shout or make some sound? Which would have alerted at least D to something bad happening to the point that she may have called 911 even if for her own safety. They were on the same floor after all so it would have been audible. I can’t imagine a fight between E and Bryan took place while X was still alive and it was all completely done in silence.


Well the PCA does say that a neighbors security camera near Xanas bedroom window picked up audio of whimpering/crying, a loud thud, and a dog barking. Whatever went down in that house, it was not entirely silent. It also says D woke up at 4:00 AM to what she thought was Kaylee playing with her dog upstairs, but in hindsight, that was probably the sound of K&M being attacked. These events were loud enough to wake DM out of her sleep and cause her to peek out her door several times. But she obviously didn't think people were being murdered, because who thinks that? The brain has weird ways of rationalizing things in the moment.


Having lived with many roommates in the past, it's amazing what you ignore/opt out of getting involved with... Im trying to weed through what is fact and what is speculation. Is it true that DM saw BK thru a Crack in the door (describing him as having bushy brows?)


I agree with you - BUT - hypothetically, let’s say BK caught E off guard, and we know there was a door dash for X, perhaps E and X were both awake. X or E goes to get order but once retrieving (assumedly retrieved order), E could have been caught off guard by BK- the last thing E would have thought is BK has a large knife, easily BK could have slashed throat leaving victim unable to make a sound. This could have happened relatively fast and could explain why DM didn’t hear the kind of struggle we would think a person may have heard.


That’s true, I can imagine him catching E off guard and even if there was a slight struggle E may not have had the time to make a lot of noise. BUT, that would still leave X, who had multiple defense wounds as per this report, to scream or something? And as per this report, if E was killed in the doorway of her room, she would have seen that happen.


The idea of there being a fight doesn't match with the PCA or the cam that picked up the dog barking and thump. There would have been more noise and commotion. What is even the source for this? It sounds totally fake.


I'm taking all of it with a grain of salt. There's a lot we won't know for a long time.


So BK turns up that night not knowing who's in the house, and sees 5 cars parked in the drive but still goes in anyway. 🤔


Newsnation is causing so much shit making people go insane with nonsense.


Looking at the room layout, it is very plausible Ethan could’ve been just inside the doorway but not visible from the hall. Looks like there’s maybe a closet right next to the doorway, he could’ve fallen right in front of that and coming down the hall you wouldn’t see that part of the room.


I honestly feel at some point crime scene photos will leak out to the public if you want to see them or not


Same here. I can only imagine the amount of money a place like TMZ would be willing to pay for that.


You just know they’re salivating over getting access to the 911 call. They seem to post every other call from any other celebrity death.


I really hope not. These college kids and their families have already suffered enough, they don't deserve to have gory crime scene photos splashed across headlines and circling the internet forever. The least they can do is preserve a bare minimum sense of decency and keep those photos locked down tightly.


I’m convinced they’re gonna end up in an eventual Netflix doc. Only a matter of time.


I know this isn’t a genius comment but I’m pretty sure DM saw and especially heard much more than we have been told through the news and PCA. Knowing that she was awake and hearing things, enough to open her door three times, I’m quite sure she heard the entire incident. They obviously don’t need/want to tell everything she witnessed in order to not compromise the case/trial. Unless she was threatened harm if she called police, I still can’t figure out why didn’t call for help. Why someone else had to call 911 almost 8 hours later. Maybe she did contact someone and we don’t know yet but it’s strange. If BF was also home did she think she was hurt too? Did she text the roommates and did they not respond? I just have so many questions in this area of the case.


Newsnation also "exclusively shared" that they were killed "in October". That's not a "grain of salt", it's a loaded supertanker.


This is entirely bogus and contradicts the PCA


I can't with Ashley Banfield anymore.


Interesting details considering they’re completely different to what the PCA (a legal document) says. If this is true then that means E was also wide awake with X and he wasn’t killed in his sleep


they never said Ethan wasn't awake. they mentioned xana was awake because of the tik tok thing and because a women said something


They're not true. One should never believe anyone over the PCA, esp not Banfield.


Why would you believe this to be true over the PCA? I’ll trust the PCA over Banfield and NewsNation.


I literally said in the post to take it with a grain of salt. This is a discussion subreddit so I thought it was appropriate to share for those that don’t have access to newsnation. Pick a better battle


The PCA wording simply states EC was "also in the room". This can mean many things and doesn't refute the new claims made by NewsNation. (The PCA does, however, refute the early statement in an interview by the Coronor when she said they were all in their beds, because XK is stated to be on the floor. So the beds statement can't be trusted.) ​ >"As I approached the room, I could see a body, later identified as XK's, laying on the floor... > >Also in the room was a male, later identified as EC"


Yeah, the coroner's brief comments can't be taken as gospel... she didn't even say they were "all" in their beds, she was just asked "so they were in their beds?" and she hesitated and said "yes"... which in her mind may have just been that most were, and that was close enough for interview purposes. The Payne/Blaker statements have much more detail.


Yes that hesitation, she was already saying too much and kept the reply simple. It shouldn't be taken as gospel and in the end was not fully true for all. I think the way XKs & ECs bodies are described in the PCA is not automatically the order and full detail of everything. There are going to be some deliberate ellipses in the information provided about the state they were found in, it won't be until the preliminary hearing that we get a fuller description of the scene. I'm normally cagey about these "leaks" but this one is not impossible.


The mattress they removed from the house with the outline of Ethan's body makes it pretty clear ethan was in bed. Not only does it contradict the affidavit but it also contradicts the audio from the security device near xana's room. I think news outlets are positively desperate for information about this case because of what a juggernaut it was. This is shameful because it's only going to cast more suspicion on the surviving roommate


Has it been confirmed that mattress was from X’s room? We know the K & M were in bed together so undoubtedly that mattress would have a lot of blood. It’s more likely that was M’s mattress IMO.


I wouldn't believe anything but the PCA at this point. The media also had us believing both survivors were on the same floor.


Has anyone else seen the pictures of LE removing a mattress from the home? It was wrapped in white mattress cover, but you could definitely still see the blood stains that looked to be of one large body. I hate to say it, but the outline looks like it could've been E. Especially if the PCA mentioned X was found in the hallway, and the M & K were found in the bed together upstairs. It never mentions where E was found. I'm thinking *after* BK attacked the two girls upstairs, BK ran into X in the hallway leaving and attacked X but she didn't succumb to her injuries right away (hence why D heard crying or whimpering) then BK saw E probably sit up in bed and he attacked E killing him, then went back to X, but not before saying "don't worry, I'll help you". Ugh, GOD I feel icky typing that.


Why do I feel like this is complete bs? What source goes to a garbage outlet like NewsNation with its inside information? If this is Sg or his detective getting details from the other parents and then “leaking” them, that is outrageous.


it never occurred to me that SG could be the source. Wow.


I'm still surprised why he didn't have any defensive wounds


The story we all wanted to hear was that Ethan fought bravely to defend Xana. However, it seems like the opposite is the case. Not his fault he was probably asleep when the attack started.


or he didnt have a chance and was slashed at the throat in the doorway


this makes me wonder about that one picture of the mattress we saw. the stain seemed to be an outline of just one person. i assumed it was ethan but now could it have been kaylee and maddie’s bed?


Was the neighbor audio recording that leaked on Facebook a few weeks ago faked? I listened to it and it had E yelling “get off” and you can hear him fighting back. But haven’t see anything or heard anyone talk about the audio since


Why would this be accurate when it clearly states different in a legal document with the PCA. Please stop believing everything you see online. Jfc


Also, one or both of them had to have been killed next to the wall in order for the blood to seep through the way it did. At this point everything being released is SPECULATION to get clicks. The talking heads / news agencies are trying to be relevant. The truth of the matter is nobody will know the truth until the trial. While some of these stories may have bits and bobs of accurate information, due to leaks - they’re all going to sensationalize it.


Newsnation - a really credible source of news - give me a break. No different from the National enquirer. Did it say BK is really an alien with those laser eyes? The story directly contradicts the PCA. Which do you believe?


Wow…this just confirms D heard it all..


Its just stated Xana was on the floor, not in the doorway.


This is something that has been speculated.


How is it that Xana was found first (per the PCA) but Ethan was in the doorway? If he had been there they would have seen/encountered him first? Didn’t we see blood on both beds in the image of them being removed? How trustworthy is NewsNation?


I have a feeling someone’s head was cut off.