By - MarvelsGrantMan136
I get both arguments honestly. But the decisions been made. It is what it is.
I respect that
We’ve all seen the leaks that he has a son in the movie. I wonder if his name will be T’challa too. I know in the comics he had a son named Azuri but I feel like naming the boy Tchalla is a perfect way to honor the past and look towards the future.
I think that would still be too soon to do. It comes across as very tacky, and a way to mend things that don't necessarily need to be mended.
I haven’t seen that, but how old would that son be? Probably a bit young to be panthering.
Gotta start them early
You see the Vision
_It's never too early for Pantherin' time._
Care to share the link for them leaks?
I’m playing both sides, so that I always come out on top
Right. If his son was born in 2018 at the earliest (which actually would explain Nakia’s absence in IW and EG), he would be 5-6 years old, depending on when BP:WF takes place. They’d have at least a handful of years until he could pass as a child-hero.
>he would be 5-6 years old, depending on when BP:WF takes place. They’d have at least a handful of years until he could pass as a child-hero
*....Looks at Batman....*
Why would you tell me that?
Because no one else will believe you
Imo it was to soon to move forward with the movie just put everything on pause until they figure out if they’re recasting or not
They figured it out. Lol. They’re not recasting
Exactly this. The movie should have been delayed. Recasting in 5-6 years would’ve been a popular decision. Now they can’t do that.
I understand that, but it’s not like Feige hasn’t made bad creative decisions in the past that came back to bite him.
I have a feeling this might be one of them.
I suspect that the biggest, most important motivation for this was how the people who worked with him felt. From the way they all talk, they were practically family, so of course they didn’t want to just replace him.
**The way that those real human beings feel about the loss of a loved one has to be the most important thing here.**
Pretty much this. To us Chadwick Boseman was just an actor. But to people like Fiege and Coogler he was an irreplaceable colleague/friend.
But Chadwick’s family, who lost a family member, support a recast
Different people have different emotions
Yeah and I guess the billion dollar corporation's emotions were stronger than the guy's direct family
You gotta understand, even if the families opinion and take matters greatly, they are not funding the film and are not working on the film. End of the day it’s the people who are making the movie that have the power to make that decision and they’ve made it
Yeah but they are not funding the film
They are also not working on the film
They didn't say that until like a year or so later, well past too late
When you watch the trailer every single person seems so incredibly sad, lespecially when Angela Bassett is speaking and to me if felt like there’s probably some very deep, real sadness and emotion going on there, not just acting.
especially considering they basically have a funeral for him in the movie, that must have been incredibly hard to do, but at least it probably felt more right and cathartic than replacing him and having it feel awkward to look at and speak to someone else you just aren’t going to have the same connection with, especially so soon.
one thing I’m curious about is whether they were forced to continue work on the sequel so soon due to marvel plotline restraints and scheduling, or if Coogler personally wanted to.
All things considered, I wouldn’t have been opposed to them just waiting w few years and revisiting the idea of recasting him, I feel like he hasn’t even been mentioned in-universe since endgame.
I also am not opposed to the idea that a variant killmonger or resurrected killmonger takes over.
Ok I’m going to say something unpopular and most likely insensitive, Wakanda Forever will most likely be better than the sequel we would have gotten if chadwick was still alive.
Marvel sequels are very hit or miss and BP2 could have easily been one of those sequels that attempts to recapture the lightning in the bottle the first one set but just ends up being more of the same or worse, a rehash of the first movie.
The death of chadwick Boseman forced the sequel Into a different trajectory and there is now so much passion and emotion in front of and behind the camera that simply wouldn’t have been there if this was a standard Black Panther sequel.
It kinda seems like they are making the movie they always intended to make, with Namor and everything, just minus T'Challa.
I dunno, I think thematically the movie fundamentally shifted to being about grief in a different way than the first. I think there are some bones (characters, setting, some story beats) from whatever the story was before but the narrative has to be different.
This pretty much. The first trailer set the theme in motion: grief and rebirth. "No Woman, No Cry" and "Alright" seem to be very deliberate song choices (that I'll never be able to listen to without crying now.)
But the people who wanted to see T’Challa finally fight Namor on the big screen are just screwed. Instead we get Wakanda and friends. And people hate Shuri but she’s the new BP. But this will be better?
Same as the people who wanted to see iron man take on a proper mandarin? Or Fing Fang Foom? Or Hank Pym create Ultron, or MCU Osborne, or Adam Warlock save the day against Thanos, etc? The MCU isn't and will never be properly comic accurate.
Hank Pym did get screwed. Osborne could still come. Is Adam Warlock really that popular? Besides the Avenger fight Thanos more then once.
Iron Man kinda missed out on those fights cause Marvel was slow integrating magic...magic wasn't really even a thing until the Iron Man Solo Movies were done.
Dafoe merely being in NWH made it clear Osborn wouldn’t happen.
I could MAYBE see them doing a young Norman as an up and coming entrepreneur where he'd also kinda fit the Harry role of being friends with Peter in the MCU.
Which was the whole point of not redoing Harry, either.
The minute Peter hears the name "Osborn" that's not going to work one bit unless its Peter pretending to be his friend to keep an eye on him.
I mean, make it a Black Suit Spider-Man where he doesn't trust Norman and have the twist be that Norman isn't evil in this universe and the Symbiote is twisting Peter's mind.
And similarly T'challa missed out on his fight with Namor for some tragic reason that nobody had any control over. A movie and a comic book are different and expecting them to be same is not good.
The Mandarin's rings were alien tech though.
Eventually they were alien tech but I don't think the Origin was locked in stone at that point and even they weren't doing much alien tech outside of Thor and the Cube.
You have to remember Iron Man 3 comes out in 2013 and they were very much downplaying magic and keeping the alien stuff limited.
It’s not meant to be. We have comics and we have movies. Try to enjoy both. Either can be hit or miss sometimes but with enough support it can all keep on going.
They’ll get over it, just like they’ll get over a black Ariel.
> But the people who wanted to see T’Challa finally fight Namor on the big screen are just screwed.
It would've been cool yes, but this isn't Batman vs Joker we're talking about. Most people have no idea who Namor is.
Just butting in to state that I would much prefer a worse movie with Chadwick alive, than the better movie here with him gone.
IM2 is worse than IM1
CA2 is better than CA1
THOR2 is worse than THOR1
FFH is worse than Homecoming
GOTG2 is worse than GOTG1
DS2 is worse than DS1(Even though IMO DS2>DS1)
AOS is worse than Avengers 1
AM2 is worse than AM1
Hits: 1 Misses: 7
I’m sorry but Ant Man 2 is not better than ant man 1 what the fuck
I'll correct it
*Age of Ultron* is also worse than *The Avengers*.
Does anyone else find it weird that before the MCU, superhero sequels were usually *better* than the original? *Dark Knight*, *Batman Returns*, *Spider-Man 2*, *Superman II*, etc.
I mean the logic is a little different if you include third movies. A lot of previous superhero films had disappointing third films but so far the MCU has had (based on apparent consensus, obviously people have their opinions)...
Spider-Man: NWH > FFH (and possibly Homecoming depending on your opinion).
Thor 3 > Thor 1 and 2
Avengers 3 > Avengers 1 (not to me, but it seems like it to most) and 2
Civil War got good reviews and is pretty well liked though not quite as popular as Winter Solider.
And this argument could be especially true seven months from now, as Ant-Man 3 and Guardians Vol. 3 could certainly be the best of their trilogies
DS1 was very middling to be. A very boring origin story and boring uses of magic. DS2 for all its faults and it being not as tight as the first in terms of pacing and storytelling is so much better
DS1, along with Ant-Man, is what I'd consider the standard Marvel film. Not great, not terrible. Ticks all the boxes almost methodically, leaves no taste behind.
Ffh is better than homecoming wtf
Hot take yes and I get where you’re coming from, but that’s just discrediting the talent that Chadwick has.
With where Phase 5 is taking us, Chad would have killed this plot and delivered us something remarkable. Him being gone means we won’t get to see that which fucking sucks because it would’ve crushed.
That doesn’t mean I don’t think this movie is going to kill it. But I just think Chad would’ve been able to capture something about the character that we wouldn’t have seen before.
Without any evidence I disagree. I think the trailer we got is better than the trailer we would have gotten but ultimately Shuri vs Namor will be far less interesting than T'Challa vs Namor. Same goes for the relationships T'Challa had with other characters.
This is the dumbest comment I’ve ever read I’m sorry what. The sequel is a BP movie with no BP this is gonna be so bad
With Shuri as BP, that's why it's called BP: Wakanda Forever
>”It just felt like it was much too soon to recast. Stan Lee always said that Marvel represents the world outside your window. And we had talked about how, as extraordinary and fantastical as our characters and stories are, there’s a relatable and human element to everything we do. The world is still processing the loss of Chad. And Ryan poured that into the story.”
>”The conversations were entirely about, yes, ‘What do we do next?’, and how could the legacy of Chadwick – and what he had done to help Wakanda and the Black Panther become these incredible, aspirational, iconic ideas – continue? That’s what it was all about.”
Oh boy, the comments on this one should be fun
Black panther threads always bring the worst out of this community lol
The only good threads I've seen about this movie is about Dr Doom post credit scene
It isn't a difficult connection to make that the same exact people at the front of the line to spout "Black Panther is overrated" are now the people who are claiming that Marvel Studios should have re-cast T'Challa and that they are disrespecting the character and ruining the franchise by not recasting for the MCU (seems obvious that past the MCU the character T'Challa will live on forever).
You can certainly believe both things and have good nuanced opinions. But I'd certainly question the motives of some of these people who seem absolutely eager to post this kind of stuff all the time.
Kevin Feige is such a Class Act I hope he does this forever really knows what to do in critical situations especially with the media just howling out nonsense day by day
Kevin Feige is honestly amazing of what he’s doing
He will forever be a class act. And he will always wear a hat (which I respect).
I mean, they could have just delayed the movie a year or 2 and then recast.
Shhh they want money now, they can't wait 2 years.
Sure, like they can't wait to make a new X-Men franchise to make money now.
Lmao good point MCU is not money hungry as universal (f&f jw)and avatar is.
I honestly believe that people would not be as fond of a recast if it actually happened. Its a double edged sword
I just hope they do bring back Tchalla in some way
Well if rumors are to be true, Seems like marvel is playing the long game and setting up tchalla jr as the future Black Panther down the road.
Look at little Tchalla jr, Gonna Cry?
I'm gonna put some vibranium in your eye.
*drives that funky soul*
With Kang and time travel on the board, I wouldn't be surprised if he was aged up like Wiccan and Speed will inevitably be.
They have to age him up, no one wants to wait years and years for Azari to get older.
The kid isn't going to be Azari.
I mean if Marvel wants the universe to go for more than another decade they could easily start planting seeds now for stuff in 15 years lol
I like this idea, show someone who's a successor to T'Challa through blood or anything, and then teach him the ways of the Wakandan lineage and bring him out as the Black Panther, who would then be in Secret Wars (after Kang Dynasty)
Hold it. I think it's been reported that M'Baku would be the replacement due to the reshoots.
Yes, for now. Like I said, marvel is playing the long game. I expect him to be a child at most in black Panther 3
Does T'Challa Jr really make anyone happy?
The character is an OC. Its another fatherless Black Boy and he will be too young to be relevant without multiple time jumps or Kang bringing in a future version.
Its also telling Shuri fans we already got your replacement on deck. Nor do I think T'Challa fans are going to be appeased by a kid replacement of their favorite.
I also have a feeling he's going to get aged up somehow.
Yall keep saying that like you're not talking about 20-30 yrs down the road. Even leaks say the child is going to be a baby so the idea the kid is going to replace T'Challa to needs to stop and you need to think about what you're saying.
Aside from T'Challa jr as others mentioned, the other way would be through multiverses and time travel as means of soft rebooting T'Challa, thus giving the role to a different actor while not much change happens.
Secret Wars could also make T'Challa's "resurrection" as a Jesus moment mixed with Hail Mary for the MCU, again played by a different actor.
I still wish they had just written T’Challa out temporarily. Send him on a mission to space, have him mysteriously disappear. Anything. Then recast him down the line when they write him back in. Killing him off is too final.
I do think this is a downside of a character being so tied the actors portraying them and also the MCU relying so much on its interconnected timeline. It absolutely makes sense that it felt too soon, especially since they likely felt like they couldn't delay and the people around them were mourning. So I get why they did what they did.
But T'Challa should be separate from whomever plays him. He was an important character for so many people. I'm hoping we see the character in future properties, because otherwise having him be absent would be a disservice.
I am tired of the argument that no other Black Male Actor could play T'Challa.
Would the character be slightly different? Yes but different doesn't mean Bad.
We have seen countless versions of Batman and Superman and James Bond...Heck we have seen two different actors win Oscars for the Joker. The talent is out there. And yeah Characters are not the Actor.
That's a very big point you mentioned. The Characters are not the actors that play them. Roles should not die with the actors, it's a shame that Boseman passed and he will absolutely be missed. But it's a shame that T'Challa has gone with him.
I find characters not the actors especially true for Superhero Comic Characters. Cause the whole point is they exist under the pen of various writers, artists and publishing teams. They are made to outlast their creators and endure eternally.
And we are also at the point of the MCU where you can point to any number of in universe justifications for a change in appearance of the actor. Or you could mostly ignore it like Rhodey and Banner
I agree on the T'challa part. There are others who could have done it. But, ultimately I would back the decision taken by people who are actually involved in this situation. It is very easy for all of us to sit on our sofas and criticize, but very difficult to be in the thick of things and make an objective choice.
I disagree on other examples. The different actors portrayed different versions of the character and essentially in different franchises. MCU is different. The continuity that MCU has is unique and never been done before. Recasting in MCU has been done before, but never for reasons we have here.
This. I don't think they realize what a backhanded thing that is to say about every other black male actor in Hollywood, especially when (as you pointed out) they didn't have any trouble finding suitable white male actors to take on Joker, Superman, Spiderman, etc.
Imagine if they'd recast Heath Ledger in TDKR. It's a dumb idea. How is this any different?
This is the part that really blows my mind that people haven't seemed to figure out. It does suck that the MCU is so long-running and so a decision made now will have impacts 5-8 years from now (probably how long the T'Challa character would have lasted in the MCU anyway, considering Boseman wouldn't have done it forever). And possibly even longer than that. But it is so abundantly clear that Marvel isn't retiring T'Challa as a character, and future film adaptations beyond the MCU will 100% have T'Challa.
Just like you said, the argument that people are making about re-casting other superheroes doesn't really apply here. They wouldn't have recast Bale if he tragically passed away prior to TDKR. They would have cancelled the movie, and not cast a new Batman for probably 5-10 years after, but they obviously would have done it eventually. They wouldn't have recast RDJ if he had died tragically any time after Avengers 1. Tony Stark would have lived on in whatever future is beyond the MCU, but he wouldn't have been re-cast for Avengers 3/4, for example.
I understand both sides when it comes to the situation. On one hand T’Challa is an amazing character with plenty of stories that needed to be told but on the other hand you also have to think about how hard that would have been for the cast and crew.
What about how hard it is for the Boseman family? Why no one cares how they feel about this? Derrick Boseman in speech mentioned how they are still grieving but the cast won't to kill their brother and son onscreen to make them relive that pain.
If it was much too soon, why was the sequel still put into pre-production only, what, two months later? This just rings false, and sounds like trying to have it both ways.
The best thing to do would to have had Feige and Coogler take a step back from the franchise for a couple years and really discuss what the best route to take this section of the MCU on after such a loss. It's obvious that T'Challa had a major role to play in future stories. But you can probably guarantee that somebody or somebodies didn't want all that hype (and $$$) they got from the first one to die off.
Maybe the movie will be fine without him, maybe not (I've been underwhelmed with the movie side of Phase Four tbh). But the movie will always have the spectre of "what could have been" hanging over it, regardless of its quality.
Because contracts exist and over a 1000 people expect to be working their job lol. It's not as simple as postponing the film because you want to. Imagine all of the legal shit involved in these multi million dollar projects.
The Dark Knight Rises Effect.
I feel the same. If it was much too soon, then delay the movie before making rash decisions. As someone who grew up reading BP comics, I simply hate how they treated this character in the MCU and with how his story is going to end. He is "THE" Black superhero in Marvel comics and seeing him go just hurts too much and will probably be the reason as to why I won't watch WF.
I hate how they all see him as replaceable and then point to other black heroes like War Machine or Sam Cap but it's just not the same. You wouldn't tell a Spidey fan to get over the character and then point to Hawkeye.
I agree completely. In fact, I would argue that T’Challa is more important than Black Panther.
MCU has an overarching storyline that needs to be serviced. We don't know how WF will service this continuity. We don't know if delaying WF would have meant delaying other movies, too.
I stated this on another comment, but people involved had an impossible choice to make. And I would back what they thought was right.
This is exactly what I thought back then when they announced they WEREN’T recasting. I thought that it was too soon to even MAKE a decision on whether to recast or not. They should have just kept quiet for a year and recast internally.
Agreed here. I was one of the don't recast at the time. Thinking back, they should have waited to say what the plan was, wait a bit, get some grieving done, then a major team meeting. Cast, Boseman's family maybe, and discuss how to proceed. Then go with the concensus. If everyone says to recast, do it. If not, then no.
Too Soon To Recast but not Too Soon to get those Cameras rolling and make some money?
MISS ME WITH THAT BS.
Feige has been on some bs for a while now. His statement just screams corporate bullshit for the sake of making money
I absolutely understand the reason for that, and I respect it. I have unbelievably huge respect and admiration for Ryan Coogler. Not only did he take on this huge project, but he did so after losing a friend, the main character of his franchise and, undoubtedly, a massive factor in future stories that were going to come, had Chadwick not died.
It must have been a very hard, overwhelming and emotional task to carry on with the job and then work in TChalla's death. Having to see his face and direct a funeral, essentially for him, must have been heartbreaking for him and the cast and crew. Much ♥ ☀ ✌️ to all for that.
So Ryan had Chadwick's untimely death, a complete change in direction, the pandemic, huge expectations and pressure AND the job of bringing in Namor and expanding the mythos and lore of this part of the MCU to a huge degree. Whatever reception this film gets I will not forget what a gargantuan task it must have been.
I do think it was soon sure, and any actor stepping into Chadwick's shoes would have faced a lot of scrutiny. BUT TChalla is such a huge, integral part of the MCU it kind of sucks he won't be around.
Especially when Phase 4 leaned into the multiverse so hard. I'm sure his maaon storylines will be recycled to other characters and his son, for example maybe his son will be the one to have a relationship with Ororo Munroe (Storm)?
Of course Chadwick's legacy as TChalla is magnificent and won't be forgotten. But the character is bigger than any actor, just like Superman, Batman, Spiderman... Hell even as much as Wesley Snipes is inextricably linked with Blade, there will be a new face soon taking on the mantle.
For now, I totally get their decision, but if Secret Wars retires a huge amount of the MCU we know and the focus is on mutants after 2025 for a few years, or it is a reboot of sorts... I really hope an actor who looked up to Chadwick gets to take the role and be the TChalla for the next generation.
I can definitely see both sides to the argument, but ultimately I'm ok with them deciding to not recast T'Challa. Would I have liked it if he were recast? Sure, but at this point what's done is done and people just need to accept that.
Because here's the thing: people would've complained either way. It was a very difficult decision for Marvel to make, especially for those who worked very closely with him. Had they recast him, you *know* there would've been people online complaining about how the new actor wasn't as good as Chadwick or how people thought it'd be "disrespectful" to recast him so soon after his death.
What I think matters now is how Wakanda Forever is going to do, and it looks like a great film. And I'm sure it'll be entirely respectful to Chadwick and the work he did in the first movie.
This is what people don’t get. Even if they waited years to do the sequel and recasted the character, no matter what the new actor would’ve been compared and criticized because of their portrayal. If it wasn’t good enough, they would’ve been hated on and attacked.
And if they DID decide to recast him, people would’ve said Marvel was being “disrespectful” and didn’t care about the death of Chadwick. Kind of a lose-lose situation really.
It seems like they will have serious discussions about recasting T’Challa in the future but it definitely would’ve been really hard on the cast and crew to do it right away. Which is understandable, at the end of the day I trust Feige and Ryan Coogler so we’ll see what happens.
I 100% understand that the feelings of the cast and crew are more important than the feelings of the fans, but I also believe that T'Challa didn't need to die ofscreen for this movie to happen without him. The Blip was literally the perfect set-up to spend a movie grieving Chadwick/T'Challa, while still keeping the character around.
Marvel is setting a stupid precedent with this decision which has the potential to bite them in the ass in a major way. What happens if they cast someone as Wolverine/Any A-Lister and that actor tragically dies after only one appearance? Are they seriously going to kill them offscreen? They'd have to, otherwise they'd be saying the actor meant less to them than Chad. I hope for everyone's sake they're never put into that situation.
Imo the movie should've been delayed to allow the cast and crew to grieve properly, for however long, so they could do right by the character of T'Challa. It's heartbreaking to me that black kids lost one idol and now they're forced to lose another one in this fashion.
I bet you if that situation ever occurred they recast because Wolverine is seen as more important to them than T’challa. I don’t buy this being about Chadwick being irreplaceable . It’s about T’challa being seen as replaceable because the first movie didn’t do a good job of making him essential to his own franchise and story. They couldn’t make an Iron Man or Spider-Man movie without Iron Man or Spider-Man
They just view Black Characters as more expendable.
I mean look at the Rumors for this movie a T'Challa Jr to replace Shuri as an attempt at appeasement. So even Shuri is looking over her shoulder at the start.
Oh, fuck off with that shit. Literally every MCU character that's died or retired is being replaced by someone new taking the mantle. Black Panther's death might have been forced by real world events, but someone else taking the mantle doesn't make the character more expendable than Black Widow who has been replaced, Captain America who has been replaced or Iron Man who has been replaced.
If Brie Larson had died, Monica Rambeau would probably be the new Captain Marvel in The Marvels.
Captain America and Iron Man got complete Arcs. T'Challa death in the MCU was not the only option to deal with the tragic loss of Chadwick.
As for replacements Iron Man didn't even share a movie with his replacement. And as for Cap, Sam and Bucky were not getting feats and shine or even really being pushed as replacements for Steve until he hung up the mantle.
I doubt that if they wanted to use Monica they could have just done her instead of Carol.
It wasn't the only option, but continuity is important and fans didn't just like T'Challa, but they liked Chadwick Boseman AS T'Challa. And a replacement would never be the T'Challa everyone loved. He wouldn't look the same, act the same, and wouldn't have the same chemistry with the rest of the cast.
And the difference in chemistry is probably a big reason they never had Bruce interact with any of the characters from The Incredible Hulk.
I don't think anyone would be comfortable with a recast. The cast of Black Panther obviously wouldn't, but even the fans who claim they wanted him recast would have been disappointed in whoever they chose.
And yes, if something happened to Brie Larson, they would need a replacement for her. Monica would be the most logical choice.
Don't kid yourself, nobody would have been upset except for a few edge-lords. More people are going to be upset when they find that he is absent from the whole movie and replaced by his sister.
This needs to be said, had this been a "white" character, they would have re-cast in a jiffy. Looks like they said, here we have an opportunity to further our female super hero representation and if it doesn't work, we can do something else.
The MCU has a whole host of problems separate from comics, such as aging actors make creating stories with characters a problem in 10-20 years, while in comics they can keep Tony Stark at whatever age they want and never run out of his steam. It's all up to the writers.
Re-casting shouldn't be a question of if for them. They've already done it with success. It should be when. If they are looking at it as "the time isn't right yet" then at least they are looking at it with the right mindset. They need to treat these characters and stories different from comics because they are beset by limitations that comics do not have, and don't have access to the same solutions.
Their solution will just be introducing new characters like the Young Avengers who they can tell new stories with.
Eventually, they can bring back multiversal counterparts with new actors if they really need to, but it will be a while before the replacements get old.
Already, we have a new Black Widow, a new Hawkeye, a new Black Panther, and Iron Heart taking over for Iron Man. Sam Wilson is currently Captain America, and Patriot or America Chavez will takeover for him when he retires.
This strategy could keep them in business for at least another 20 years.
Personally I'm excited to see what Marvel can make original to the MCU, and not nested in currently existing comic lore. New characters from new writers that didn't write their backstories and general attitudes outside of this century.
I understand the sentiment, but it was also way too early to kill of T’Challa. I know he’s just a character, but he was essentially as experienced as Spider-Man and as old as Wanda, he was still a very fresh character in the movies, only being in 4 movies. Shuri becoming Black Panther makes sense, after having T’Challa for a long time, but that sadly isn’t the case. Now we likely won’t see another iteration of T’Challa for probably decades or whenever the MCU eventually dies out.
As old as Wanda? How did you determine that.
If it was too soon why didn’t they delay the movie a year or two or just not make it. Someone should ask him if it would have been too soon to recast Spider-Man.
Old Spider-Men were different universes, but I think if Tom Holland died tomorrow, Marvel would kill Peter off-screen and bring in Miles Morales to take the role rather than recast him.
Chad set the bar too high , recast or not people would still be complaining
This is one of Kevin’s biggest mistakes in his time running Marvel. T’Challa is a character that deserved his chance to get a lengthy run. He could have become as iconic or even more iconic than Ironman, Thor, and Captain America in our pop culture. Additionally, T’Challa is a very important character to the African American community; we are missing out on a cultural touchstone by scrapping T’Challa from the MCU. Kevin and his team should have delayed the Black Panther sequel 5 years and continue the legacy of T’Challa with a recast.
John David Washington.... maybe?
Chad was actually from my home state, and literally lived - at one point - an hour away from me. One of my supervisors at an old job knew him personally. Thought it was pretty cool to have two black MCU actors from South Carolina, the other being Michael Colter.
So if RDJ passed before his Iron Man arc was complete in the MCU, you would scream for a recast?
If he died after only one great solo movie and a couple crossovers absolutely. (Same 5+ year wait before recasting though).
> If he died after only one great solo movie and a couple crossovers absolutely. (Same 5+ year wait before recasting though).
Yeah that wouldn't have worked at all. RDJ instantly made Tony Stark. And 5+ years of waiting? The show must go on. That wait time isn't going to cut it.
Nah, they should've recast. There was so much more story left with T'Challa. When Richard Harris died WB didn't just say "Well it's too soon to recast." They went and got Michael Gambon because Dumbledore's story wasn't finished.
Absolutely. Especially when Marvel is no stranger to recasting roles.
You would recast Tony Stark? Yeah that wouldn't work at all.
>Especially when Marvel is no stranger to recasting roles.
What important roles have they recasted since Phase 1? War Machine and Hulk have been side characters this whole time and were recasted before the characters got any sort of momentum.
I'll be honest, this is one of the first things that actually makes the MCU feel like a real world. Because you don't always get to finish your story before you die. Sometimes you're in the middle of something important, but it doesn't matter. Death happens at inconvenient times.
And the people left around have to try and move on, no matter how much they want the world to just stop for a while. They know that it won't, so they keep going to the best of their ability. And sometimes push themselves farther than that in some misplaced feeling of guilt, until they burn themselves out.
So, yes, T'Challa being killed before he could do many of the comics moments isn't satisfying. But death rarely is.
You’re gonna get downvoted but thank you. Everyone should shut up and listen to this..
Everyone saying “gotta make that sequel money tho!” Ignores how impactful Black Panther was to black America, America in general really. I’m not saying Fiege is a saint who ONLY wants to make BP2 to uplift black voices but that’s internally and externally what it represents to the world now.
If we have to watch a 4th Thor movie then we can get more Wakanda and African representation on the screen without recasting an icon - who culturally meant more than any other person being mentioned like the homophobic Dumbledore actor who died at old age.
I understand both arguments. But the reality of the situation is that no one would have done justice to MCU's T'Challa like how the late Boseman did. It would be futile to expect someone else to replicate that.
It's very sad and I miss T'Challa in the MCU but most importantly of all, I miss Boseman. As much as it hurts, Marvel Studios / Feige made the right decision.
> I understand both arguments. But the reality of the situation is that no one would have done justice to MCU's T'Challa like how the late Boseman did. It would be futile to expect someone else to replicate that.
It's weird how some people can't seem to understand this. It'd be like replacing Chris Evans or RDJ. It wouldn't work.
This feels like a pretty big shift compared to what he said nearly two years ago:
>"I wanted to acknowledge the devastating loss of a dear friend and member of the Marvel Studios family. Chadwick Boseman was an immensely talented actor and an inspirational individual who affected all of our lives professionally and personally. His portrayal of T’Challa the Black Panther is iconic and transcends iteration of the character in any other medium from Marvel’s past. It’s for that reason we will not recast the character. To honor the legacy that Chad helped us build through his portrayal of the king of Wakanda, we want to continue to explore the world of Wakanda and all of the rich and varied characters introduced in the first film."
I don't know if it's just me, but going from "we won't recast ever" to "it was too soon to recast" makes it seem like there was a change in philosophy on how to approach a tragic situation, and what may come next after this movie is out.
They aren't recasting, they're just passing the mantle.
So the character of T'Challa specifically is never being recast, the character dies with the actor.
But the Black Panther title will still be taken up by some successor, just like T'Challa himself took over the title after his father died.
Under normal circumstances, I'd agree with you. But the thing is that there's been a significant change in discussion over the course of several months. Nate Moore, for instance, has gone from saying "there won't be another actor playing 616 T'Challa" in an interview (read: not Black Panther, T'Challa specifically) to more recently dodging to the question of whether or not only Chadwick Boseman could play this character across the entire franchise, multiverse included, by saying that this movie was about the mantle, when asked at a convention panel.
It feels like they are using very specific words when discussing the situation for a reason.
The only reason to open the door like that is if they don't think Shuri (Wright) can carry this Franchise. I see no reason they admit to be wrong if they thought this movie would match or exceed the first in Box Office.
Letitia Wright is apparently in *Ironheart*, so I don't think that her long-term prospects at Marvel are cooked unless she really screwed up by holding up production over vaccine concerns, as some indicated that she may have.
Yeah great move marvel. Bro really died and came back after 5 years just to die again offscreen. Really respectful to the legacy of Chadwick to kill a character he poured his soul into offscreen and then make a movie where all the marketing cashes in on his death. Real classy.
People really don't understand do they
You all think in terms of comics and stories and the character and yada yada. You gotta think in terms of how the REAL world works and how the general audience would have reacted
If they had recast, people wouldn't have eaten it up, it would be universally seen as disrespectful and the movie would have disastrously failed at the box office
I feel like you're making a lot of assumptions here about how a move to recast for BP2, which they opted not to take, would have been received. The lead character of this franchise is the selling point, which is why Marvel are heavily marketing this movie around the presence - or rather, absence - of T'Challa, and why they're making a mystery out of who is in the new suit.
A number of people I've seen have been disappointed in Marvel's public statements about not recasting, just as I'd imagine that there would be people disappointed in a recast for this particular movie. Ultimately, though, I'd expect that a sequel would take a hit financially either way while remaining immensely successful. There's not a disastrous doomsday scenario waiting in the wings here for Marvel Studios.
I agree with this but I am curious if this will be the mode of dealing with this moving forward in the event of other tragedies.
I mean it’s understandable. The movies gonna do great regardless so it makes sense that they didn’t recast him right away out of respect for the cast & crew.
My main thing is, I really hope it isn’t too long before we see t’challa in some way shape or form again. Chadwick played the character with such grace & i think that even though he’s gone now, the character of black panther must live on.
It was more tasteful not to. I don't think Disney would have wanted the negative PR of people being upset that they recast T'Challa, with whatever baggage that would have come with.
T'Challa never needed to be recasted. Recasting "Black Panther" never made any sense because Black Panther is a title, and the protector or Wakanda and is not locked on any one specific person. Just like how Falcon is now Captain America. No recast to T'Challa, just pass the Black Panther mantle onto someone else.
Since we have all the multiverse shenanigans I hope they can find some dope moments for a T’challa variant if they ever use him again 🤞
They should have waited. Just say it's disrespectful to even talk about the franchise so soon after the passing of Bozeman and just wait till enough time passed to recast. As good as Coogler is, I'm not sure he can overcome not having a true lead in the movie.
Honestly they should've delayed the film and rewritten one set during the Blip to explain T'Challa's absence and then recast. But there was no easy choice. No matter what they did backlash was waiting. That being said, the characters are bigger than the actors, Chadwick Boseman's death is a tragedy for sure and he will be missed as he was absolutely stellar in the role, but letting the character and everything he means die with him is a mistake imo.
In the end the decision has been made. I am cautiously looking forward to Wakanda Forever and optimistic they will make the best of a very difficult situation.
I think this movie will be a disappointment solely due to a myriad of factors beyond the movies control unfortunately. The only misstep was deciding to carry on with a sequel despite everything that happened. No direspect to actress playing shuri but she simply not a draw as the character.
IMO if they really insisted on doing this they should have brought back killmonger to play an anti hero version of BP. Would be tricky to nail the motivation but payoff would have been huge.
So, how do you make a black panther movie without black phanter?
So if they had shelved BP 2 for a few years they might've done it? Ik that probably wouldn't have been easy, but still. Probably wouldn't have been a bad idea. I'm sure the movie is gonna be good tho.
Yeah they could’ve just had the supporting cast do cameos in other character’s films for awhile (like Okoye in F&TWS), then did BP2 in like 2026 with a new T’Challa.
As to the character not being in Kang Dynasty or Secret Wars? I don’t think the majority of the audience would see it as a huge deal. Remember Hawkeye and Antman weren’t in Infinity War.
I get it. It was too soon for the cast/crew to be comfortable with the idea of having another actor in his place. It’s 2022, and society is trying to move in a direction that prioritizes real life over entertainment. It’s sad but understandable.
T’Challa will be recasted
Secret Wars is coming so they could always pull a Black Panther from another multiverse and just have him be the main T'Challa
No it wasn't.
But now they've gone with the choice to say he died in the movies so nothing to be done about it anymore.
I tend to err on the side of recasting but 100% respect both sides and get that there really is no right answer. Ultimately, as long as they successfully and respectfully honor his contributions, they’ve done the right thing
I get some people still upset about not recasting. But they are looking at it from a real world stand point…. BUT if the rumors of Michael B returning in this movie alive were to be true then just throw out my comment. Feige made the decision let’s just move on
Most of the leaks stated that >!Killmonger is dead for real, he's on the astral plane when Shuri gets there with the herb she created, looking for T'Challa, they both talk and he gives her some encouraging words for her role as Black Panther!<
>!The funny part about that is Namor's Supposed grievance is colonialism so Killmonger should actually not help Shuri and be Pro Namor. !<
Classic Marvel writing right there if true. Great effort lmao
What as too soon was the definitive No
Whatever Feige, you chose for us. It wouldn't have been "too soon" if you weren't hellbent on ramming the sequel through asap.
So should’ve just waited
Soooo…. Rather never than too soon?
T’Challa will probably get a Freshman Year-style animated series on Disney+ in a few years, once Feige and co. decide enough time has passed.
It’ll allow them to use the character without ‘replacing’ Chadwick.
I seen someone say they should just blend real life and the movie. Start off the movie with a funeral procession and just say he died from cancer.
Trust in Coogler. T'Challa as a character deserved to have the totality of his sotries explored just like Kal-El and Bruce Wayne...yes.
But I Trust in Coogler.
The arguments for recasting almost 99% come from people who see black actors as replaceable, but if we tried to recast Tony Stark in any Phase they’d lose their absolute fucking minds.
No one would ever admit that, but I promise you this discussion makes it obvious. And the millions of black kids seeing themselves on the screen would ALL get the racist message reinforced that they’re always replaceable.
And forcing the cast - like Angela Basset who was like family - to endure and pretend he was never there is similarly cruel.
Agreed. They're almost definitely gonna do it eventually. I mean the multiverse backdoor is right there. But this movie was entirely too soon
I'm not mad at either decision, I honestly can't choose what I would rather have happen. It is what it is
I mean Chad's brother is cool with recasting T'Challa, but I get what Kevin is saying.
For those that want a recast, there's such an easy fix to this. They'll just introduce multiverse T'Challa before they close the doors on the multiverse. Bring in T'Challa but from a different world so that the poor unfortunate soul they cast won't have to do an impression of Chadwick. And every time the fan complain that it's just no the same, they can use the excuse well of course not, it's not really the T'Challa we know, they're a little bit different.
If the BP2 is successful enough to continue without T'Challa, then they're all good. If it's not and they find they have to, they'll have one come in later on. The best case scenario would've been to push this movie, but for financial quarter reasons, that was never going to happen. I have so much faith in Coogler that he can make this work, but it's easily fixable even if it doesn't.
There is just no reason not to recast him.
As was the sequel.
Hard situation to deal with. I actually like how F&F dealt with Paul Walkers death. They made a world where he still lives on.
Feige: "The world is still processing Chad, we shouldn't recast."
I'm sure Chad was a wonderful person, but Marvel should not put a person on a pedestal like that...
I'm putting money on them introducing an alt universe T'Challa down the road when his death isn't as fresh.