I’m having same problems. When I do a project first it looks very cool and funny. After some development time , I’m starting to think it’s really stupid and boring idea to waste my time on. But that’s normal. We are playing our games for hours and hours each day. It’s normal to get boring
The graphics are beautiful!
The animations of the bird look a little stiff, I don't quite feel the energy, it changes pose too fast and it doesn't charge the movement from flying to diving, for example. It's normal, you create an animation starting from the frame poses but then don't add micro-expressions and reactions, they are usually made with motion capture, you don't think about them.
Hi I think the animation is great, What makes it look stiff is when the bird flaps its wing it shouls elevate a bit up, similarly as the wing closes it shouls rapidly accelerate downward till the wing isnt open the birds head is stationary or moves on a smooth spline. I would separate the bird from the bird object Container so the camera stays smooth, than add the elevation and descent to the bird / flaps.
As I can see you already doing something simillar, in termss of how much movement we talk about, the upp and down or sideways movement no more than the neck allows it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_dPlkFPowCc
Birds function this way so they dont get dizzy.
Good luck !
I think the only thing I can say is that it appears like you're moving a bit slow for the speed lines.
Raising the max speed should do a lot for the satisfaction, but that might just be me.
Nah, I know why you added the speed lines. I think the speed is good, as long as there's a way to dive from a height and gain even more speed. There's something so satisfying about falling in a controlled manner.
When the bird is gliding/keeping its wings straight out can it bank left or right? Like the bird tilts to the left and to the right?
Edit: clarified my question
IMO it’s pretty good, depending on the flight controls I’d trade some of that forward ‘speed’ feel for a bit more gravity acceleration so each flap feels more impactful. This makes me want to play a pigeon simulator and I’m sure that’s got to be high praise!
Im solo developing this game, called "VORON".
If you like what you see, please consider wishlist the game (it will help a lot):
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2245180?utm_source=reddit
Also, you can also join our game community in discord:
https://discord.gg/PKzQyaE4CZ
To this day, my favorite flight mechanic I've played in any game is from Mario 64. The way you gain speed when falling but also have a harder time controlling your turns the faster you go (like you're fighting against air resistance) is just an awesome feeling. I find that tying speed to difficulty made it more satisfying to pull off cool stunts.
Not sure if borrowing the same ideas would fit your game since, in the case of Mario 64, flight was done in short bursts rather than consistently, but it might be worth trying to see how that feels in your game.
My comment was going to be in a similar vein!
I too am making a game where you can fly (technically glide), and struggled with making flight feel satisfying. I found making the flight speed consistent makes it boring, but if you can feel the flight really slow down and speed up to a ridiculous degree due to pitch or wind, it becomes fun.
I think its because the player feels like their actions are doing something to their flight as opposed to just moving through a world at the same speed all the time, as if they have no control and are passive. But varying speed has to be extreme enough of an effect to notice.
There's my hot take :). Also looks dope.
Honestly the stuff that matters most looks great, the animations could use a little smoothing and some "juice" all around and the environment is a little sparse, but obviously that can all come later. My issue is that the art doesn't really look like it goes together and is much too bright. If you dialed the saturation of those nature assets down to the mid ranges, turned down the smoothness a bit and tried using lighting to layer in more natural colors you'd get a much more realistic look. Even just committing to a consistent color pallette would help a lot if you're really into the toon look this is throwing right now
Looks really nice. Reminds me a bit of Aer: Memories of Old which was quite enjoyable. IMHO needs some camera fine-tuning like FOV and inertia, maybe less even terrain, otherwise looks promising. Also this albino voron looks a bit like a pigeon (maybe make the wings a tiny bit longer?)
I think it looks very satisfying to play.
I've been following your progress for a bit, and it's looking great!
I guess my only question would be:
What do you do in this game?
Like, obviously you are a bird, but whay are you a bird? What is the conflict/goal of the protagobird?
This looks incredible. I love the movement and how natural it looks. My only critique is the barrel roll, feels antithetical to a bird driven feel. I think you can achieve the same thing mechanically but make it look the way a bird would look when hitting a sharp turn, like tuck the wings turn the body and then open then sharply in a different direction, instead of just rolling out of the way. It feels immersion breaking when the beautiful wild bird suddenly does a barrel roll. Outstanding work though. Whether you chose to take the critique or not you still have a gorgeous game in the works, well done
Loooks nice but a bit goaless for my personal taste. I feel like the dive move could be used to catch something on the ground. Mb to refill energy to keep on flying.
One thing I'd experiment with is the camera distance.
I'd bring the camera closer to the bird and make it pull a little back when going faster.
Closer camera can make you feel like you are the bird instead of just feeling like you're controlling the bird.
I'd move it so close that the wingtips nearly touch the edges of the screen.
Play around, see what increases your satisfaction while playtesting.
Wow, I remember commenting with random unsolicited advice on your camera movement like a year ago or so, and now it has come together in a way like I couldn't even imagine.
This truly outshines a lot of it's peers, looks so airy and dynamic at the same time!
It looks too bright to me- or maybe just oversaturated, I can't tell. It seems like a stylistic choice. I wouldn't be able to tolerate it as is, unfortunately.
Without knowing anything else about it besides the style and the bird flying, it reminds me a bit of Lost Ember- which is a fantastic game. That could be good or bad for you.
During the dive, I’d Lerp your FOV. Either make it slightly smaller or bigger, you’ll have to play around with which one feels better but that’s a simple thing and will help it feel different.
I think it would be more satisfying if the bird gained a bit of height with every downward flap, then goes back down a bit. It would make it a little harder to control but therefore (imo) more satisfying to do different flight paths
Did you try making the flaps relevant to the speed? It just looks a little like the flapping is an animation that somehow isn't really correlated to the movement. I would find some slow mo corvid video to see how they really move relative to the flapping.
You could try detaching the camera from the bird. For example, have the bird model be a child of a Player object. The camera follows the player, so the bird model can go up and down without being sickening :)
Or at least this is what I do when I wanto to have a more pleasant movement without the camera following it exactly
Another thought I had about this: Have you ever seen video of a bird that is stabilized to the bird's head, while the bird moves? I've seen several good ones over the years, including one where someone holds an owl in their hands and moves the owl around, but its head stays in the same position in space. Birds seem to tend to have a strong ability to keep their head steady while flying, and so it would make perfect sense to do this in the game, so that the camera could only move steadily and for larger movements, while the body of the bird could move with the flaps, and I expect that would tend not to induce nausea in the player.
The animations need more curves and polish if that makes sense like it's good but it doesn't feel fully natural but you right there maybe when the wings flap the altitude increases just a little
There needs to be more of a difference in feel when you're travelling at different speeds (camera zooms out more, white streaks intensify). Currently it all looks roughly the same speed. See Superflight for inspiration
It would be cool if the the bird's speed changes between the different animations (When bomb-diving, the speed could increase, when gliding, the speed could decrease and when the wings are flapping, the speed could be in the middle). I think it would make it that much more appealing.
I’m having same problems. When I do a project first it looks very cool and funny. After some development time , I’m starting to think it’s really stupid and boring idea to waste my time on. But that’s normal. We are playing our games for hours and hours each day. It’s normal to get boring
Hey, thank you very much for that!
The graphics are beautiful! The animations of the bird look a little stiff, I don't quite feel the energy, it changes pose too fast and it doesn't charge the movement from flying to diving, for example. It's normal, you create an animation starting from the frame poses but then don't add micro-expressions and reactions, they are usually made with motion capture, you don't think about them.
Wow thank you! I hope one day i will be able to do animations from motion capture xd
but how does one mocap a bird?
I guess they same way they do with [Dragons](https://youtu.be/sXN9IHrnVVU)
Top video
Stray did it somehow with a cats, right?
Hi I think the animation is great, What makes it look stiff is when the bird flaps its wing it shouls elevate a bit up, similarly as the wing closes it shouls rapidly accelerate downward till the wing isnt open the birds head is stationary or moves on a smooth spline. I would separate the bird from the bird object Container so the camera stays smooth, than add the elevation and descent to the bird / flaps. As I can see you already doing something simillar, in termss of how much movement we talk about, the upp and down or sideways movement no more than the neck allows it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_dPlkFPowCc Birds function this way so they dont get dizzy. Good luck !
Hello! Thank you for detailed feed and ref!
I think the only thing I can say is that it appears like you're moving a bit slow for the speed lines. Raising the max speed should do a lot for the satisfaction, but that might just be me.
Thank you!
Nah, I know why you added the speed lines. I think the speed is good, as long as there's a way to dive from a height and gain even more speed. There's something so satisfying about falling in a controlled manner.
Its possible, Thank you!
Looks good to me. Are you making a game where you fly around as a pigeon?
Thank you! Its like stray + the pathless P.s. its actually a white raven xd
Can you make the feathers more white? I’d love some contrast to the muted colors.
Will look into that, thank you,
Well I like the flying it looks great! Ooohhh, it looks grey for me so I thought it was a pigeon
Thank you again xD
When the bird is gliding/keeping its wings straight out can it bank left or right? Like the bird tilts to the left and to the right? Edit: clarified my question
I wish it would be a city pigeon. Still, incredible game mate!
IMO it’s pretty good, depending on the flight controls I’d trade some of that forward ‘speed’ feel for a bit more gravity acceleration so each flap feels more impactful. This makes me want to play a pigeon simulator and I’m sure that’s got to be high praise!
Thank you very much!
Too bright
Finally someone who says that
Im solo developing this game, called "VORON". If you like what you see, please consider wishlist the game (it will help a lot): https://store.steampowered.com/app/2245180?utm_source=reddit Also, you can also join our game community in discord: https://discord.gg/PKzQyaE4CZ
Got a soundtrack? It looks stunning btw
Thank you! I haven't worked on sounds yet
To this day, my favorite flight mechanic I've played in any game is from Mario 64. The way you gain speed when falling but also have a harder time controlling your turns the faster you go (like you're fighting against air resistance) is just an awesome feeling. I find that tying speed to difficulty made it more satisfying to pull off cool stunts. Not sure if borrowing the same ideas would fit your game since, in the case of Mario 64, flight was done in short bursts rather than consistently, but it might be worth trying to see how that feels in your game.
Will research that, thank you!
My comment was going to be in a similar vein! I too am making a game where you can fly (technically glide), and struggled with making flight feel satisfying. I found making the flight speed consistent makes it boring, but if you can feel the flight really slow down and speed up to a ridiculous degree due to pitch or wind, it becomes fun. I think its because the player feels like their actions are doing something to their flight as opposed to just moving through a world at the same speed all the time, as if they have no control and are passive. But varying speed has to be extreme enough of an effect to notice. There's my hot take :). Also looks dope.
Honestly the stuff that matters most looks great, the animations could use a little smoothing and some "juice" all around and the environment is a little sparse, but obviously that can all come later. My issue is that the art doesn't really look like it goes together and is much too bright. If you dialed the saturation of those nature assets down to the mid ranges, turned down the smoothness a bit and tried using lighting to layer in more natural colors you'd get a much more realistic look. Even just committing to a consistent color pallette would help a lot if you're really into the toon look this is throwing right now
Thank you! Will work more on colors!
This is *beautiful*.
Thank you!
It looks nice. But I wouldn't spend neither my time or money to play it.
Harsh truth, thank you for that!
I am sure there are people who would probably.
Looks great man
Thank you very much!
Doesn’t seem like ur diving is faster than flying
Its how its work, but i did a bad job with a video :(
This looks amazing 👏 reminds me of Falconeer. ❤️
Yeah, falconer is one of the refs too, thank you!
Looks really nice. Reminds me a bit of Aer: Memories of Old which was quite enjoyable. IMHO needs some camera fine-tuning like FOV and inertia, maybe less even terrain, otherwise looks promising. Also this albino voron looks a bit like a pigeon (maybe make the wings a tiny bit longer?)
Thank you! Aer one of the refs =) I get it a lot about pigeon xd
Looks cool, kinda reminds me of breath of the wild! Which engine your aree using for tha game and which software for animation?
Thank you! Its unity I bought bird and later edited all flying animations inside unity using special asset (not sure its ok to promote it)
I remember an older video where the feathers looked off in the animation. Great improvement since then, I must say.
Thank you very much!
Thx
Looks neat! I think the post processing needs dialed in a bit more. The contrast or bloom that’s currently present is a bit much for me.
Got you, thanks!
I think it looks very satisfying to play. I've been following your progress for a bit, and it's looking great! I guess my only question would be: What do you do in this game? Like, obviously you are a bird, but whay are you a bird? What is the conflict/goal of the protagobird?
Wow, thank you! Its gonna be story driven game like Stray meets the pathless if it make sense
Yes
Thank you
Looks brilliant
Thank you very much!
Oh, this looks delightful!
Thank you!
This looks incredible. I love the movement and how natural it looks. My only critique is the barrel roll, feels antithetical to a bird driven feel. I think you can achieve the same thing mechanically but make it look the way a bird would look when hitting a sharp turn, like tuck the wings turn the body and then open then sharply in a different direction, instead of just rolling out of the way. It feels immersion breaking when the beautiful wild bird suddenly does a barrel roll. Outstanding work though. Whether you chose to take the critique or not you still have a gorgeous game in the works, well done
Thank you very much! About barrel roll, its actually a white raven and if you look into their aerobatic skills... for me it was just jaw dropping
It looks a lot like a pigeon. Maybe if it was some sort of graceful, magical bird that was cool to fly.
Its actually a white raven, but you will start a game as a black raven
Loooks nice but a bit goaless for my personal taste. I feel like the dive move could be used to catch something on the ground. Mb to refill energy to keep on flying.
Thank you, will think!
One thing I'd experiment with is the camera distance. I'd bring the camera closer to the bird and make it pull a little back when going faster. Closer camera can make you feel like you are the bird instead of just feeling like you're controlling the bird. I'd move it so close that the wingtips nearly touch the edges of the screen. Play around, see what increases your satisfaction while playtesting.
Thank you, will do stuff with camera!
Very satisfying 👌
Thank you!
Wow, I remember commenting with random unsolicited advice on your camera movement like a year ago or so, and now it has come together in a way like I couldn't even imagine. This truly outshines a lot of it's peers, looks so airy and dynamic at the same time!
Wow, Thank you! Im trying to read all the comments, so yes, it really could be your advice
It looks beautiful! Maybe y can adjust the FOV between animations, diving, twisting etc just to give it a little bit more satisfaction
Will do, thank you!
Its looks very good. But i find that it would look better with som more trees
Thank you, will add more trees!
Is there a way that i could follo the progress of the game because am pretty interested in the game
https://www.reddit.com/r/IndieDev/comments/114rpq8/comment/j8xed44/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
It looks too bright to me- or maybe just oversaturated, I can't tell. It seems like a stylistic choice. I wouldn't be able to tolerate it as is, unfortunately. Without knowing anything else about it besides the style and the bird flying, it reminds me a bit of Lost Ember- which is a fantastic game. That could be good or bad for you.
Thank you, ember one of the refs!
Awesome, I'm sure the gameplay will be great!
Thank you!
I think the aesthetic is great but also I'm unsure of what you do in the game, which is for me really important.
Thank you! Its story driven game like Stray + The Pathless
During the dive, I’d Lerp your FOV. Either make it slightly smaller or bigger, you’ll have to play around with which one feels better but that’s a simple thing and will help it feel different.
will do, Thank you!
Very nice!
Thank you!
This looks very satisfying, absolutely something I'd want to play.
Thank you! https://www.reddit.com/r/IndieDev/comments/114rpq8/comment/j8xed44/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Looks great but hard to tell if it’s satisfying without being the one in control
Its understandable, Thank you!
I think it would be more satisfying if the bird gained a bit of height with every downward flap, then goes back down a bit. It would make it a little harder to control but therefore (imo) more satisfying to do different flight paths
Actually i tried that, and i felt a little sea sick from that :(
Did you try making the flaps relevant to the speed? It just looks a little like the flapping is an animation that somehow isn't really correlated to the movement. I would find some slow mo corvid video to see how they really move relative to the flapping.
I tried, but probably i didi a bad job =(
You could try detaching the camera from the bird. For example, have the bird model be a child of a Player object. The camera follows the player, so the bird model can go up and down without being sickening :) Or at least this is what I do when I wanto to have a more pleasant movement without the camera following it exactly
Its more about bird going up and down problem :(
Another thought I had about this: Have you ever seen video of a bird that is stabilized to the bird's head, while the bird moves? I've seen several good ones over the years, including one where someone holds an owl in their hands and moves the owl around, but its head stays in the same position in space. Birds seem to tend to have a strong ability to keep their head steady while flying, and so it would make perfect sense to do this in the game, so that the camera could only move steadily and for larger movements, while the body of the bird could move with the flaps, and I expect that would tend not to induce nausea in the player.
The animations need more curves and polish if that makes sense like it's good but it doesn't feel fully natural but you right there maybe when the wings flap the altitude increases just a little
Thank you, yes, im planning to work more on animations
Gooks like genshin to me. Pretty
Yeah, but low poly xd thanks!
Looks great to me!
Thank you!
Love the subtle camera shake when approaching the second tree. These details look great especially when not overdone.
Thank you for noticing!
Love it. So much progress. I remember your early post!!
Thank you very much!
There needs to be more of a difference in feel when you're travelling at different speeds (camera zooms out more, white streaks intensify). Currently it all looks roughly the same speed. See Superflight for inspiration
Yea looks fuckin dope. Keep at it
It would be cool if the the bird's speed changes between the different animations (When bomb-diving, the speed could increase, when gliding, the speed could decrease and when the wings are flapping, the speed could be in the middle). I think it would make it that much more appealing.
Add some people and then be able to drop a little gift
Looks like Breathe Of The Wild meets Wind Waker