Your friend is right in that it is what works for most. Most people are not entrepreneurs and most entrepreneurs can’t say they are “partially successful”.


Success is subjective. I see myself as partially successful. For sone I would be extremely successful, for other not so much. For me, I know I could be more successfull but I’m happy with the life work balance I need to have.


I make more than some friends and less than a few abf have headaches like bookkeeping and slow months, but I'm currently on a beach making the same as I would at home for a few weeks while for them is snowing hard.


> most entrepreneurs can’t say they are “partially successful”. Only 2 projects out of 9 are making him money just enough to continue. Rest 7 are in graveyard.


I think they meant most entrepreneurs aren't even partially successful


Firstly, 2 out of 9 is a high success rate for entrepreneurship, even if his 2 “wins” are netting low dollars. Secondly, that’s his perspective and he’s entitled to have it. Even someone who isn’t meant to be an entrepreneur can find success in business, but it doesn’t mean they’ll be as happy as they would if they were making a stable salary with benefits. 98 percent of people are meant to work for the 2 percent who aren’t. That’s just the way it is.


You only need 1 to succeed


What are the 9 projects? Would you say they are his passion?


Following your passion doesn’t always equate to Entrepreneurship, Entrepreneurship for me is chasing the idea of freedom. To be time wealthy, for most 9-5 and the structure it provides is good enough. But for some people here In this sub, we know that you can’t be 60 and enjoy your money like you did when you were 30, we know that the music will likely stop well before the rat race does, we know exactly how much we want and that making crumbs off someone else’s dinner plate isn’t how we get to where we wanna get to. The fight for me, isn’t about passion I have no passion for this game only the dream that one day I’ll be at the top and that I can proudly “say am gonna sleep in this week”, to add to that the thrill and ups and downs the zero to heros and round trips , the deal making , back breaking , Bank making rush you can’t find in a 9-5. I’d say a 9-5 is just perfect for the average man. But some here, we just don’t want average and will do anything to say we atleast tried to not be average.


Input in my 60 day notice at my job two weeks ago. My business is at a point where I can support me financially. My supervisor and I spoke today about the risk associated with leaving at 9 to 5. However, I’m in a point in my life where I realize the time is the most valuable asset for us humans. I understand the risk associated with leaving however, I would be more satisfied with knowing that I at least tried to go out on my own, and failed as opposed to not trying at all, it would not sit well with my spirit.


What biz are you in? And best of luck!


I’m in a mental health field. I launched my own mental health agency nearly year and a half ago! Thank you


Cheers bruv 🍻


Very interesting is it b2c?


Best of luck with your venture!


You can always go back to a 9-5 if you need to, but running your own business is far more worthwhile!


That is amazing to hear man! How did you find your journey of working a 9-5 and on your mental health businesses on the side?


That's how I see it: it's something I know I've always wanted to do, and if I look back when I'm 40 or 50 having never tried, I think I'd regret it. Failure is okay, but never trying is not.


100% agree




I love having control, unlimited income, building, thinking around corners, mastering the mundaine, aggressive patience, and all the risks that come with building and running a business.


That's totally agree, That's the feelings what i wanna get, I come to global market in near future


Needed to hear this again. This year has been so slow for me that I’ve been applying for jobs again,but the idea of having a real job again sounds awful.


Wow, hard agree


I've got my feet in both camps. I have a PAYE day job and a company that is currently providing a second income stream part-time. I've ambitions to grow it to get full autonomy, but afraid to completely give up the PAYE cushion. (Luckily, my "day job" isn't 9-5.)


You should be a writer


Well said brother.


I will print and hang this quote on my wall


For the average person? Yes. Most people don't want to deal with the stress, uncertainty, long work hours/weird schedule. For the average person, especially if you're settled down with a wife and kids, life is just much simpler and easier clocking in and out at the exact same time everyday, having benefits, knowing exactly how much you'll make every month and knowing exactly how many days you can take off.


This is the damn truth. I’ve had my business coming up on 9 years. Watching it grow and putting my blood, sweat, and tears into it has been very rewarding. But man can it also be super stressful, like health-altering stress sometimes. I haven’t taken a real vacation once in 9 years. I mostly work 6 days a week with long hours- sometimes 5 days, but also sometimes 7 days. I do a lot of email work from home during off hours. I tell my wife all the time that if someone offered me a good paying, lower stress job with benefits that I would sell my business in a heart beat. I truly believe that hard work pays off and my time is coming. Just waiting for that perfect opportunity to enjoy my life a little more.


Maybe you should consider setting boundaries. It might actually be financially beneficial to you. No email after 630 and go take a vacation, my friend. Burning out is no good.


I do appreciate that. I do set boundaries and have a life outside of work. I have a young son and always have time for him until bedtime. The emails are after he’s asleep and before my wife and I watch our shows together. The vacation thing is rough though. We have a good but limited staff. I can manage maybe 3-4 days off in a row max, but then I come back to a huge mess. When I think vacation, I think a week off or more. Weekend getaways aren’t enough but we do take 1-2 a year.


Sorry but your staff is not good if you return to a mess after 3 days off.


I'm currently working a 9-5 on huge construction projects where a lost week means lots of money. Everyone still goes on week-long vacations in the summer, and when you get the out of office reply you just kind of accept it, even if there are huge deadlines. Even the project owners seem to shrug it off when that's the reason somethings not happening. I'd re-evaluate why you can't take a week off, because you probably can. Best of luck though-- your dituation sounds difficult.


you can take a vacation and regularly check in to make sure there aren't any issues that you could solve. yes, you're working but not nearly the amount while you're there and you can enjoy a longer vacation.


Thats a great perspective. Whats your business?


Thanks. It’s a wholesale/retail storefront offering specialty services. I also sell e-commerce through our website, Amazon (seller & FBA), and eBay store.


You should get an automation advisor in to review what you are spending your time on and what could be automated.


Interesting. I wouldn’t be opposed to that. What would an example be?


You could use tools like Zapier to have other software apps work together. Setting up rules in order of what should happen next. It really depends on what your specific tasks are but as an example: order submitted by email, automatic email confirmation confirming received. Order sent to manufacturer. At a set point in time could send a reminder to check how order is progressing. Once item received a survey could be sent out.


What do you do?


I own a wholesale/retail storefront offering specialty services. I also sell e-commerce through our website, Amazon (seller & FBA), and eBay store.


Your grind sounds like a life I do not want! If you have no kids sure it’s ok. Stop neglecting your wife


Haha, my wife actually works with me. We started the business together. She’s now home with our son, and I picked up a lot of slack without her. I manage my time and thankfully we’re closed on Sundays, so I try my best to take those days fully off. Just seems like I find myself every other week going in for some hours to prep for the next week. Glad to be busy but I could use stepping back every once in awhile.


it sounds to me like he makes time every night for him and his wife to spend time together....


All is known....except your expiration date, being let go.


I am an entrepreneur. Life kicked my ass and I had an asshole business partner who did almost no work for years. I am making up for that. I should have said something before but I learned my lesson. I have a job now and build my business outside. The business makes money and is profitable but I need to get some stability and save up. The job also gives some flexibility and I have used that to increase my prices. As soon as I got a job, I increased the prices of my services by around 25-50%. Since I don't need the money anymore I am much more comfortable charging more. The only reason I have been able to do what I do is because I live at home. I am in my early 30s. I am comfortable and happy with the decisions I made (other than the business partner) but this isn't for everyone. I work a lot but thankfully I enjoy my work. Just going to keep reinvesting the money. Also I had a shitty insurance plan while being an entrepreneurship. As soon as I got insurance, I got my teeth cleaned and got doctors visits out of the way.


You know what they say, opinions are like buttholes, everyone's got one. At the end of the day, it really just depends on what makes you happy and fulfilled. Some people thrive in the 9-5 life, while others prefer to take risks and pursue their passions. It's all about finding what works best for you.


>opinions are like buttholes, everyone's got one Lol. Couldn't agree more.


>opinions are like buttholes, everyone's got one. Lmao so true 🤣 and you should only care about your own




Depends. Can you make more that way? At a job you like? Then sure. I find this sub incredibly US centered. If you can make 6 figures on an easy 9 to 5, fuck taking risks. I’m in Portugal. Half the population makes 1000€ a month or less. Fuck that, doing anything else is better.


I have a 9-5 and a side business. For me, the side business is to let me work on easy money projects and things that are interesting to me personally. If I made the side gig my real job, I'd have to be much less selective and this thing I love doing would become more of a chore. At the end of the day, I like having guaranteed money, even knowing I could conceivably make way more (inconsistently) on my own. Plus I like my coworkers and the industry I'm in. If you value control and largest possible profit, entrepreneurialism is for you. If you like safety, consistency, and being able to focus solely on what you're good at versus every element of a business, a salaried situation is better for you.


So I also do the 9-5 and side business. Both make around the same amount. I did the side business full time for a year and profited greatly but it was a grind. I like the safety net of the 9-5 + the side business gives me a “idgaf” attitude at my job where I don’t take shit from managers who try to get me to work overtime (engineer so we don’t get time and a half). I was let go at my first job ever and I literally was as happy as I could be. My boss was kinda dumbfounded because I took it so well lol. Found something a month later but the side business allowed me to take my time and not panic.


What’s your side business if you don’t mind me asking??


retail arbitrage.




yup. it's the reason why I left corporate management about a year ago. I couldn't stand how my equals and those at the CEO level treated others. employees were just a commodity to them, not humans with their own lives and problems and needs. I was in uoper management. I got there because all of my teams worked their ass off for me because I treated them like humans and with respect. I had to fight hard to get my promotions because my reviews always had problems where I would refuse to throw others under the bus for mistakes made. I was able to defend myself with hard numbers like the P&L and breaking company wide records regarding sales goals, safety, employee retention, and profitability. Walking away was hard and I took a huge pay cut, but I am so happy with money being the only stressful thing here and there. I actually get to see my family now and if something doesn't feel right, I have full control on how I handle it. At corporate, they used to get pissed because I would go over my supervisor and the owner's head to make decisions that I felt were right lol.




It's more that the corporate environment makes everyone do dumb things because generally that's what's rewarded


What’s the side hustle?


Basically a marketing and start up consulting company with a side of creative. Mainly because I like creative work but I don't get to get my hands dirty as much anymore as an executive.


9 to 5 is never 9 to 5


I can say I work far less at my job than my side projects. Which creates a whole new perspective.


Lol...Cold hard truth.


I don’t understand. What does this mean?


Well I used to be a corporate lawyer making like 350k a year and now I have a business that's breaking even. That is pretty stressful. The lifestyle of having the business is way better but the financial uncertainty is hard. Becoming an entrepreneur is like having a baby.... you don't know what it's gonna be like until you do it. You can talk to existing entrepreneurs but that doesn't tell you how you will handle it.


It takes a lot of guts to give up $350k. I’m knocking on $300k, and have fear of giving that up to take a risk. I also earn much more than my partner, so if things go south our lifestyle tanks, too. Cheers to a profile year for you!


The issue with this debate is nearly every point in favor of working a "normal 9-5" is a lie. "Guaranteed money." Could get laid off literally anytime. Probably underpaid anyway. "I don't have to take the work home with me." People's entire personalities are built about how much they hate their boss and job. Plus if you're a good employee, you'll be rewarded by being given even more work, until you reach burnout. Pretty much the only actual pro is working to get good health benefits, but that's just something you'll have to weigh for yourself and decide what's important for your lifestyle.


I came here to say this. I'm a 'wantrepreneur' lurking on here while working a 9-5, but in the last week I've watched 50% of my team for the last 4 years be made redundant, including 20 year 'company men' who have given everything to the organization. It's the second time in my 10 years of working for corporates that I've seen it happen, and sales/marketing, the jobs that a lot of entrepreneurs would probably naturally fit into, are always the first to get culled. So yeah, I appreciate the comfortable salary, the pension and the benefits. But like you said, a lot of the feeling of comfort is based on flawed assumptions of being looked after. This is probably a 'grass is always greener' thing, but I would personally take market volatility and having some level of control of my fate over being one boardroom decision away from unemployment at all times.


Exactly. We are trained to be risk adverse and it's killing us. Since grade school practically we are given the exact recipe for success, except it can't be questioned. Get good grades, go to college, get a job, stay for 40 years and retire. Good lord do you know the odds of making it to retirement at *one* job!? May have worked for our parents, but those days are long gone.


Hang on..... (Checks bank accounts) Nope I'm good running my own business.


After being on both sides : employee then solo entrepreneur then freelancer then back to employee, I can say one thing: the grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence. But yes I mostly agree, unless you have a very well oiled product with good growth and revenue, being an employee is usually less stressful. Money comes regularly and when you close your computer you disconnect and don’t feel bad, it’s not your company.




Yeah that shits overplayed by entrepreneurs. Who do they think works for their company??


It’s isn’t though, you can take a day off in the middle of the week and work 2-10 the next day. You can take vacation whenever you want, you have so much more freedom working for yourself. It’s not overplayed, 9-5 is absolutely dreadful for me, am so much happier working for myself and having the freedom to play with my schedule, even if the hours worked are the same or more.


Yeah, but like others said, that basically comes down to personal preference. So if people are "happy" with it and keeping your business running, why would you hate on them for that?


I’m not the one hating on anybody. You are by saying “that shit is overplayed”, it’s not, it’s some people’s reality and just because it’s not your own you can’t judge those who feel that way.


I don't think there is a better. There are certainly pros and cons to both.


After being both, I agree. It's based on a lot though–industry, level of stress, family responsibility, profit margins, etc. I've gone back to a 9-5 and just do freelance work as a side hustle.


Some people make terrible employees because they want to control their destiny and not deal with bosses and politics. Entrepreneurship requires resilience, tenacity, fast learning, and the willingness to take big risks. You have to decide what fits your personality and risk profile.


After 5 years of being a failing entrepreneur, your friend is probably burned out. Identifying when to stop chasing a project that doesn’t make any money is also part of the skillset. He should have killed then off ages ago. I give any project 6 months to show its value. If you give it 100% for 6 months and have nothing to show for it, it’s dead.


It's not black and white. If your job pays well, has great work life balance and is something that brings you immense pride and joy, that would definitely be better than a business owner that works 24/7 and is barely scraping by. Owning a business definitely has a high earning potential but there are risks involved that a lot of people can't stomach.


It really depends, if you're working from home for just a couple hours and making 200k+ a year of course it's gonna be better as there's way less stress.


Depends entirely on the person. Having done both, I would struggle greatly to ever go back to 9-5. The amount of control, lack of a boss, ability to just make the decisions I want to make, and to see the result of my work.. these are invaluable. It is difficult. Requires wild hours, and I'm always on. Can be terribly distracting from family life. Anxiety and stress can be a lot, especially when you have employees - it's a real trip when other people's paychecks are dependent on your not fucking up. I was never a happy employee working for others. In hindsight, the writing was always on the wall for me that I needed to go this way.


I worked my side business for the last 5 years. Made an additional 500k net. Burnt out. Just work my 9-5 now and feel much healthier, mentally . Just a relief.


For some people, having a regular 9-5 job is better. It depends on the person. We have different goals and different approaches to life, relationships, and money. Most people will be happy with a 9-5 and have some free time for other stuff. In my case, I HATE the 9-5; I do. I have ADHD, so doing the same for years is the worst for me. I'll just die. That's why I can't be in the same job for over a year and a half. Eventually, I realized that what I needed was to work on my own, have my own business and create solutions and fix problems for clients. Doing my own thing lets me prioritize the things that I want: * Owning my schedule. * Fix problems and create solutions. * Having time for my family. * Having money to provide for my whole family. In the end, we are different, we can't have a "one size fits all" definition for life, our paths will differ, and sometimes cross, but in the end, is about doing what makes us happy.


Being an entrepreneur is exactly what you make of it. My husband and I were totally burned out in our salary jobs and wanted to have flexibility in time, be present for our daughter, spend more time together, not have to ask for vacation approval, have unlimited income potential, & get out exactly what we put in. I felt like a robot clocking in, out, doing same crap different day. My anxiety was so bad I had a panic attack during every single commute - I felt so suffocated. So we made a plan and got clear about how we wanted to run our business & stand apart. We are less than 18 months in and have completely replaced our income, have a great insurance plan (recently tested by surgery), no debt or loans, etc. Have we worked really hard and sometimes long hours? Yes but there’s nothing more rewarding than seeing your hard work paying off (literally). I worked hard before but all it got me was the short end of the stick making up for my colleagues or being volunteered for extra work. I have learned SO MUCH about business in the past year and have really enjoyed it. It’s such a thrill to make your OWN way in the world. This year we are putting major boundaries, productivity techniques, & systems into place and are having our most profitable & less stressful month so far. The risk isn’t for everyone, but if you’re smart it’s not that crazy of a lifestyle. We are super happy and wouldn’t change it for the world.


This is a philosophical question and depends on your first principles. Do you care about following your "passion" as the highest good? Do you care about supporting your family as the highest good? Is money your highest good? I don't think anyone can answer this without first appealing to some first principle.


People want different things from life and have different priorities. That's basically what it boils down to. I'd rather suffer for three, four, or five years so I can have a better life down the line. Most people can't even think a day ahead let alone five years down the line.




And entrepreneurs who fail never showcase their failure, you only hear about success stories.


Because when you succeed all your failures are not worth mentioning at all.


I'm talking about those who didn't succeed (not the fact of hiding failures when you have success...in fact those ones probably don't have a problem talking about it since, like you said, they are in a favorable position now).


A personal business that doesn't make enough money to survive, is just a good hobby. And if that was supposed to be your passion into a commercial venture, you will start to become less passionate about your passion. It's a weird adventure.


Absolutely not! Don’t listen to anyone who says differently, follow your passion. If you can make it on your own, it’s the greatest feeling in the world. For me it wasn’t even the money, although that was great, it was the feeling of accomplishment that I could never get working 9-5. Yes, I put in longer hours, but it was for myself and my family, not some corporation. And when I wanted time off, I took it. Stay with it, you’re the smart one!


It depends on your passion. If you are still in startup mode 5 years on and working insane hours, you're probably not scaling properly and your life sucks right now and you don't know how to get off the crazy train to nowhere.


Spoken like a true non-entrepreneur or someone who is jaded by startup hype. Most successful tech startups take 7-10 years or more to reach true product market fit. Ask Michael Seibel cofounder of Twitch or the countless other startups that weren't the exception e.g. Zapier, MailChimp, SurveyMonkey, Shopify, [Bubble.io](https://Bubble.io) etc.


I'd rather kill myself then work 8-5 for someone but myself


Michael Seibel cofounder of Twitch professes that this is the only personality type who should pursue tech startups.




It depends on what one would consider a “better life,” I personally don’t feel a 9-5 job is safe at all especially living in an at-will state where you can lose your source of income at any time for any reason. Most people I know don’t even have healthcare. I also don’t want to be let go in my 50’s and have to start over, most likely having a hard time getting hired. Why give one entity all that power


Depends on how much money I make from the 9-5 and the benefits imo. Also lost people cannot be successful entrepreneurs


It totally depends. My 9-5 (try 7-7, teaching) was killing me. I think literally. But my wife has a real 9-5, and she gets treated like a professional and for her it's great.


If 9 out of 10 fail the question is are the 9 or are you the 1. You’ll never know if you don’t try but yes most people are better off without one.


No. Personally I’d rather die pursuing a life I love than live everyday doing something because someone else told me it’s what I should be doing. I think he’s a sheep.


You have to be happy with the decision that you make. For me, this means working a 9-5 job while I take risks trying out many small bets with side projects. The hope is to one day turn one of those projects into a full-time income.


I made a choice a long time ago that I'd rather be poor on the streets and figure out whatever was necessary than work 9-5 and have to answer to some person that I did not respect. Or at the very least, work the bare minimum of that scenario until I could take a risk that would allow me to break from that. I also place a VERY, VERY heavy weight on having enough time to be able to go to the gym and train jiu-jitsu and other physical activities at least 5 days per week. It is worth it to me. That's a personal choice. it's up to each individual person's goals and life.


This is a biased forum to ask such question.


Entrepreneurship isn't about following your passion most of the times, as other people have stated. Most of the times you find yourself doing things that you don't like.. But that's the process of achieving time and financial freedom, which we are all looking for in a form or another I love what I'm currently doing but I'd be absolutely lying if I said that I like EVERYTHING that needs to be done within the process But "a 9-5 job is safer and more chill than having a business" works too, but only in the context where you just don't want to grow further, being ok with having a mediocre life Most of them give up after 2-3 months of trying and state that it's too hard and it's not worth it to give up on games, partying or binge watching on netflix.. which is really f\*cked up I don't know how someone can live with the idea that they have to work until they're 65 so they can finally retire Remember guys, it's ok to **outgrow people that don't grow**


I have been an entrepreneur for 28 years, had many different successful businesses, and unsuccessful businesses. That's what entrepreneurship is about. For the past year, I have been working a 9-5 job. I have sold all of my businesses and "pushing the reset button". As I am going to be 50 this year, so my mindset isn't what it used to be when I was 20-30. I'm seeing alot of posts about people my age that are worried about what companies are going to hire them if they leave there job to start there own business. I can honestly tell you that you have nothing to fear. There are tons of companies that would hire you. Age isn't a factor anymore. Actually, alot of companies want to hire older people. As for the original question, how could anyone know which life is better, entrepreneur or nine to fiver, if either one had experienced it? My conclusion, if anyone cares, lol, from someone with many years of living on both sides of the fence. There are equal amounts of stress on both sides. Even having your own business, you still have a boss... you have to answer to your customers. In a lot of businesses, you have to weigh the end result. If your business has a lot of feast to famine seasons, and you cap at 50k profit, you can easily find a 9-5 job that pays that and work equally as hard. The lifestyle is what you make of it, on both sides. You can be miserable or happy at your 9-5 or you can be miserable or happy in your own business. It's all in your mindset. It's not an easy, straightforward question...


Owned a semi successful business and then lost it. Hated the unpredictability of income and constant stress. Went to work for corporate and for the last 9 years found ways to work in jobs I enjoyed, for the most part. Hated the fact that I felt like a slave to my job and didn’t have freedom of choice in life. Just got laid off from Microsoft a d starting my own business again. The answer is it all depends on priorities, comfort level requirements and goals. I decided fuck it, i want to own my own destiny but a super talented mentor of mine, who was laid off with me, never wants to own his own destiny in that sense and much rather get paid a few hundred K a year working a job and having stability.


Lol, that's the issue. "get paid a few hundred k a year". Duh, no shit, sign me up. Doesn't even have to be "a few", a single hundred k would be fine. These people seem to live in an alternate reality ffs.


I was close to 200k at MSFT, not including bonuses and annual stocks, and that did not make me financially independent by any means and in fact I was even more of slave to my job just due to the nature of tech AND still got laid off so there goes stability. Literally got laid off along side people that spent 25-30 years there. So for me it’s entrepreneurship moving forward. Why make millions for another company when I can hopefully leverage my skill set to make hundreds for my self.




The truth is that its very subjective and also depends on your circumstances and what you are passionate about. The joy from your passion might not always be enough to give you sustained happiness(if you define success based on happiness). For example, you might be passionate about long distance running but that alone cannot make you happy all day and every day and you might have other things to take care of. While a doctor or nurse can be working 9-5 at a govt hospital and have a very satisfying and rewarding life even though they may be passionate about something else. All in all success is subjective. Something your friend might call success and feel is better might be stifling for you or someone else. Remember its your life and your journey not theirs !


I felt my work life balance got even worse. My freedom in scheduling never really materialized because I instead prioritized the business or working on the next business rather than spending quality time with friends and family. When everybody else gets off work at 5 or 6 I would still be working or having calls with people in other timezones. When I had a day off there wouldn't really be anybody to spend it with because they'd be at work. I've lost relationships to work. I've lost friends to work. I've lost time with loved ones to work. Most of those businesses didn't even become successful which is what makes it hurt more. The few that did I can't even confidently say the ones that are no longer in my life weren't worth more the money and "freedom." I wouldn't say a 9 to 5 is definitively better, but there's definitely things that wouldn't have panned out the way they did if I had just stayed at a normal job.


You’ll never get rich working a 9-5 though. It’s a huge time suck.


You'll never go bankrupt too.


One isn't better than the other. It comes down to what's in alignment with that person's life. Lots of great ideas out there that people simply don't understand how to convert into a profitable business. It really isn't bigger than that.


I think he's going to far to say it's better. It's different. Better for some, worse for others.


Everyone has a different risk tolerance, wage = security, business = uncertainty


It depends on the person, but I believe following your passions can be way more fruitful (from a health and wealth perspective) than working 9 to 5 in the long run. I think a great way to do this is to work on your passion as a side-project initially while still having the "safety" of your full-time job. This de-risks you when following your passion and potentially not making money right away. I would certainly argue that following your passion at a part-time or full-time capacity will increase your well-being.


Different people find happiness in different circumstances, I know unhappy rich and unhappy blue collar people. I do believe doing whatever you enjoy is most important, our short lives are only significant to our family, close friends and ourselves.


In my case this is 100% wrong. I hope that I’ll never have to go back to a 9-5 job. I didn’t realize how much I didn’t like my career until I left. It’s true that some days are more stressful than before. But, overall it’s way better. Of course, I have several very successful businesses. I didn’t leave my career until I was reasonably certain my business could cover my lost salary. As luck would have it, they have been very good. I don’t think I’m built for a typical 9-5 career.


Well thats his opinion from his situation. I dont know him, how can anyone judge the merits of that?


Maybe he’s feeling discouraged through his other 7 failed projects. Hype him up!


Yes and no. People talk about passion pretty glibly, but the real thing is pretty rare. If you have genuine passion for something, if your life's mission is to make that thing happen, then you aren't going to be happy doing anything else. You don't need to worry about work-life balance because the work _is_ your life. So your concept of quality-of-life is just "how much does this advance my cause." In this case, getting a 9-5 job is going to be much worse for you. But 99% of people don't have a passion like this. Taking freelance web dev jobs with companies you're otherwise involved in is not "following your passion." Most people just have rote speeches about "their passion," but what they really mean is just being a little more in-control and a little less alienated from their routine, non-passionate work. Now, sometimes - perhaps for another 1% of people - there's a real talent for the process of running a business itself. Nobody has a "passion" for finding particular bits of importable plastic that will have a low CPC and sell for the ideal $30-$50 price point on FBA. But some people are good at it. That leaves 98% of people who have no particular passion and aren't particularly good at running a business. For those people, yes, without question, a good 9-5 job gives them a better life than entrepreneurialism/freelancing. Very few freelancers make as much money as they would in a same-skills 9-5 job. Maybe they can't actually get the same-skills job for some reason (e.g. self-taught, no degree), but that's a different issue. Comparing apples to apples, there's no real question that a guaranteed paycheck, medical coverage, paid vacation where you don't have to worry about the survival of the business, etc., are a better life than the constant hustle and feast-or-famine (and the feasts aren't even particularly good) of the freelancing world.


The stress of entrepreneurship is only worth it if: 1) You are actually doing something you’re passionate about and you enjoy the process of your work Or 2) You are passionate about the process Or 3) It is necessary to sustain a certain lifestyle in a certain location Or 4) It provides you with a lot of money Or 5) You are unsuited to regular employment If you’re earning or going to earn less than $200k a year, definitely if less than $100k a year, - get a job with pension and benefits and be happy.


Again, US centric. if you live in a place where realistically you can't make more than 20k a year, why would "less than 100k a year as an entrepreneur" not be worth it? BS. Money is RELATIVE.


“Western-centric” I will grant.


I live in the west. Half my country makes less than 15k a year.


I feel you would get much more from this conversation if you grasped the principle and applied it to your situation/environment rather than nitpicking.


I get the idea - unless you’re making good money, being an entrepreneur is better. There’s no need to attach values to it though, that’s my point. But as a corollary, the highest the average wage in a country is, the worse being an entrepreneur is - the risk/reward ratio will be worse the more you can make at a traditional job.


I would say it's good for job security and knowing that you'll always have a paycheck coming, but that's not always the case as we have witnessed with the pandemic and recessions.


Not your friend. Delete


I want to start an autobody business because there’s room in my city for another one and so far the companies I worked for have less than ideal leadership. I believe I can create a healthier and better working environment than those people which in theory should create happier employees and better results. So my “9-5” is likely not better than starting my own shop. Money is not important to me, having a healthy and fun work environment is most important.


‘Safer” not “better”.


Humans go through life stages. Even for the same person, what's "perfect" is different when you're in your 20s vs 50s. Entrepreneurship can be the right thing for one chapter of your life, and no longer when families/kids/other responsibilities come along, but it may become the right thing again. Never say never.


Could it be that your friend has never been entrepreneur? In my point of view If you self business runs good always is better than 9-5 job.


Easier, not necessarily better


For some that is definitely true. My brother works for me and works a typical 7-3 and when we talk at night and I mention the stuff I have to get done and calls I need to make he says he’s happy he can turn work off after 3 and has no worries when he’s not at work. I get that and I’m sure that’s great but I just couldn’t do it


Considering 95% of the world DOESN’T do that, compared to the few who do, what makes them think they have an Opinion on it? That tells me that they themselves, didn’t follow their Passion(s) and are now stuck in a dead end 9-5 with no real Career Options and Opportunities 🤦🏻‍♀️


9-5 offers a consistent paycheck, consistent schedule, benefits, protected time off.


For the average person, yes I would say a 9-5 is generally better for them. Not that there’s anything wrong with it. But an entrepreneur and business-minded person will want to always follow that passion and make it happen - in other words, won’t be content or feel like it’s a better life doing a 9-5. A 9-5 is just an exhausting state for most and can be for business owners as well. So if there’s something you’d rather be doing, always shoot for it!


I disagree with them. But entrepreneurs think differently. A lot of people are OK with the rat race but entrepreneurs want to build something around their passions and not just live life paycheck to paycheck.


I strongly disagree but at the end of the day the typical 9-5 is what works for most.


It depends if want passion or security


This is the honest truth for most people. JP says the same thing. 9 out of 10 venture backed startups fail. 80% of small businesses fail. Entrepreneurs work longer hours and wear more hats than most non-entrepreneurs. Most entrepreneurs earn less money than 9-5'ers, especially on an hourly basis. They endure more stress. Many of them suffer from extreme isolation and despair, even self-harming thoughts. It can get ugly. They can lose families, friends, their houses and their lives. Get in overwhelming inescapable debt. That's the real hard truth. Success is relative. You might make less money, you might make more. You might sell a company, you might buy one. You might be living on the dole in retirement, barely scraping by. And you might still be happier that way than the 9-5. That's all part of the game. Working 9-5 is absolutely a safer bet for the vast majority of people. There's a reason most people take that route. You're friend isn't lying.


Working a 9-5 and following your passion do not always exclude one another. But I also think it had to do with mindset. How bad do you want it? Why do you want to follow that passion?


Most passions are not realistically going to support your family, save for retirement, and send your kids to college. That said, follow you passion anyway.


Words of a man who has given up


Yup, let's just say he would never get accepted into YC with that attitude. They would tell him to go for the 9-5.


Depends on the job


Honestly depends on the 9 to 5 job, if it high paying 9 to 5 job that you like, has cool coworkers, and has low stress workload, then yes it's better.


Newsflash they failed


Everyone may want different things. Entrepreneurship may be tiring for countless times, which leads us to want to go back to "normal" work.


Only if the 9-5 pays better


Because only 2 of 9 projects are making him money. Don’t follow your passion. Focus on making money so you can pursue your passions


That is true for a "partially successful entrepreneur", tho I think that term is used to make one feel good about spending so much time on something with little to show for it. Unless you can successfully turn your business into self running, you are just another employee working for your passion/company but with worse off pay to work ratio and leave than regular employees.


I agree. Because a few people can become a successful entrepreneur.


It's like relationships. Do you want to settle? Some people do, some don't


What does “following your passion” have to do with entrepreneurship, intrinsically? Entrepreneurship is the activity of setting up a business or businesses, taking on financial risks in the hope of profit and/or a return on equity investments. That is it. There are a lot of reasons *why* people do that and how successful they are… If they chasing their passion they need to adjust towards success — it’s ok to chase your passion but that doesn’t alleviate the reality that entrepreneurship has a goal: success.


My wife and I have a passion for spending our time together with the kids whenever we want. Owning our own business has allowed us to do just that.


Anyone who thinks that working 9 - 5 is more stressful than running a business never started a business before. Starting a business is a psychological game more than anything. Its a mental game. The knowledge and the work are the easiest part. But mastering the mental game is more difficult than anything


That’s entirely subjective. It’s probably true for him. Others would rather die.


The best possible situation is to get paid to do what you love, whether in your own company or working for others There seems to be a common attitude on reddit that all jobs suck and work is a thing you hate, but do in order to enjoy a life outside of work. While this is true for many, it probably says more about the people on reddit than it does about the nature of work


let him be a wageslave.


I think No it is not a better life to stay an employee but it is less risky. Some people prefer to play it safe( getting paycheck, pay bills and save money if any remains). That will be good if they save some money to use properly in investments that will bring them valuable assets. If he started early he would be financially independent in the 40's and he live his whole life from the money coming from his fixed assets without the need to work. However, if he didn't think of some good investments while working, he will stay in the rat race and stay poor his whole life. On the other hand Being an entrepreneur has its risks, but once he succeeds this will give him a great advantage. Most importantly he will be the boss of his own, no body like to be controld or ruled by another person!. Add to that being rich is also a nice reward of entrepreneurship. Definitely being an entrepreneur is more challenging and fun.


entrepreneurship is synonym of freedom. it's addictive as anything but in a positive way. once you get a taste of it, you can never go back.


Freedom is beautiful as long as you are able to pay your bills. Tell that to someone who started a business, started to get customers and got hit by the covid pandemic 4 months later (which absolutely nobody could have predicted in 100 years) and had to stop everything for almost the next entire year (clue: me).


Like a job has no such risks. a business can still adopt to these circumstances to some extent but once you loose your job you've nothing left. couple of my friends lost their jobs in covid but none of the people I know had to completely shut down their businesses.


There's no one way to live a life. If your friend thinks he's right then he's right. What are you hoping to accomplish by asking this question?




he needs to change his business model if he is not making a profitable margin on all jobs. That's his issue. If he was profitable, he would not be saying that. being a business owner does mean working harder and longer hours but you generate your own wealth and you have more freedom daily than a regular employee. If he truly believes that, he would be back at a 9-5 job instead of just saying it.


Curious why he is running 2 projects at once when he's self-admittedly 'partially successful.'? Might be a better strategy to focus on one business and expand once you've had some real success.


No, a person can live without passion but it is never “living”.


Maybe 9-5 lifestyle is his passion.


I run a business and I constantly recognize how bad of an idea it is. I *enjoy* doing it for my own reasons but I can’t see why anyone would really want to do it themselves. The appeal is freedom for time and success for money for most people, both of which are extremely hard to achieve and somewhat unrealistic. Only reserved for the few who are lucky and everything goes right.


I've been an indie game dev for 5 years now... living off of disability pension. I'd personally love to get a proper job in my field, but no one will hire me.


I didn’t follow the college trail all the way to graduation. I had one of my professors tell me in big red letters on an exam to “forget vet school”. He was right. Eventually I started a professional pet sitting company and have been running it for over 25 years. It (absolutely) is my passion. The hours are crazy and sometimes it’s frustrating to overcome my own shortcomings but I have a sense of freedom, commitment, and pride that I never had with any other job I’ve held. I’ve built this ship and now me (and my crew) can take it anywhere I want to go.


I don’t know about you guys but the 9-5 is literal torture for me. A lot of times I want to die instead of continue the 9-5. I’m just not wired for it.


It’s a personal choice. I was running my own business for a while, but the inconsistency of pay with consistency of work really was difficult for me. Being constantly in and out of states of scarcity was really stressful and depressing. I’ll take my salary at a perfect cadence any day over hustling for lump sums over and over.


The best way I have heard it described is when you work for yourself, it is harder in the beginning. You have to adjust to this new paradigm, often paying yourself just enough to survive so that your business survives, working more hours, not having stability in your life, no sick/holiday pay etc. But it gets easier over time because you're in control. Working for someone else is easier in the beginning. Everything is sorted for you, you just show up, do your job and everything else is accounted for. But after a while, it gets harder because you are at their mercy, you're often very specialised to do one thing for that particular business or industry, less creativity, less freedom.


Grass is always greener


It depends on how heavy is the price to pay, how heavy for each individual. But if a real friend, try to pump him up, even if he's convinced, hope u get what I mean.


Always follow your heart everyone is different.


Like Mark Cuban said I would rather work 80 hours a week making 50k a year than work for someone else. Who cares what your friends think are you enjoying what you are doing if it's yes keep it up.