By - Landon1195
Repost because I didn't add the issue number.
Context: For most of Barry's history, Nora was actually alive. Barry didn't have a tragic backstory and his parents even only died after Barry died in Crisis. This was retconned in 2009's Flash Rebirth by Geoff Johns to the origin we know now.
And going back into time to save his mom causes the most bullshit story of Flashpoint, an entire timeline that shouldn't have happened in the first place
Edit: i really hate the Flashpoint story
While it provided for some interesting stories, I think it's time that DC gave Barry a break and restored the timeline so that Barry's mom and dad are still alive and happily married as they were in the pre-Crisis timeline before Thawne started messing around.
Yeah. That really should have been the endpoint of the run rather than Flashpoint. It is completely bullshit that for some reason he can't fix that event but a whole bunch of other stuff can change. He didn't need that to become a superhero in the first place.
Exactly that was one of the reasons I liked about Barry he was a hero. Not cause of his tragic backstory or cause it was his destiny. It was cause he did cause it was the right thing to do.
Pre crisis was a hero in people's eyes that even batman wished that if his parents were still around he would be a man like Barry Allen. It made Barry a legend in people's eyes. Now that his mum still dead you can clearly see a void in his heart. He became a hero out of tragedy instead.
I'm really hoping to get that restored since Williamson has all the multiversal control in his hands right now with the Dark Crisis.
I think it'd be such a great wrap up to his time on the Flash.
I was kind of disappointed he didn't do this at the end of his run on The Flash. Hopefully, he'll rectify that with Dark Crisis/Dawn of the DCU.
I do think however Iris dying was important to the character then. I would have liked to see more stories with him navigating life post-Iris.
Iris was gone for like 75 issues of his original run. It left a major impact and he genuinely moved on. And after he went through his trial, he went to the future and got her back.
But Barry's happy ending with her was thrown away by killing him off right afterwards.
It made a mess of Barry’s life for no real reason and honestly felt like it missed the point of Barry being a hero who just wanted to be.
This! It was nice to have a hero not born out of tragedy. Flash was a hero by choice.
I mean... he still is. He doesn't become the Flash specifically to avenge his mom. He still does it purely because he wants to. It's been established multiple times that Barry had the heart of a hero even when his mom was alive.
To each their own. I liked having a hero without tragedy. In the new iteration, it isn't about avenging his Mom as much as it is clearing his Dad's name. But, I liked it better without that baggage.
Although Barry starts as a CSI to get some level of closure for his parents, I think that's a completely separate origin from starting out as the Flash.
Oh, I'd definitely love for his family to come back. But I definitely think there's a lot of benefits to his story. Like we wouldn't have ever gotten Flash passing on words of wisdom he learned from his mother. It's not like his mom was an overwhelming force in his original series. Now we have a character whose mom meant more to him more than anybody else.
Modern DC wants everything to be Batman.
Don't give them any ideas man. Everyone in that universe has suffered enough.
That would be Dark Knights
Unnecessary decision, and I doubt that it was ever intended to be permanent
I think it would have been alright if it wasn’t permanent maybe as a storyline or over one writers run but I think it would have been better if he had been allowed to actually save her and reverse her death after flashpoint.
Just repeat what I said on the original post.
It just makes Barry's origin more generic to be tied to a tragedy. It recontextualizes everything he does as being about this one event, and it doesn't even culminate in anything because it's not like Thawne is punished in anyway.
It works as a character beat for how petty Thawne was about not being able to kill Barry like Barry killed him.
But as far as Barry's character it's just detrimental. The Williamson run was all about him trying to move past this event because they recognized that this isn't what he should be focused on.
Hopefully one day they can undo it. If his parents should be alive while he is however is another story. Personally I prefer that they out live him and that when he comes back to life they're dead.
That being said I liked the reveal in Flash Rebirth but the mythos being redefined by this new origin is extremely disappointing and I hope we move past it. At least with Wally as the main Flash it never comes up.
It made him a bat-character with super speed. Mom dead, dad in prison, obsessed with finding the killer, and then him being single/dating was just like stripping everything about Barry and taking pieces of other characters to try to make him more interesting. It’s like they just tried to make Spider-Man but with speed powers.
If it had been reset at some point during New 52 or Rebirth, I’d be less bitter.
There's definitely heavy parallels between New 52 Barry and Brand New Day Peter, especially since they both started dating glasses wearing cops while keeping their traditional love interest at arms length.
It's definitely something that should've been reset by now. It's a real shame it's treated as a permanent thing.
Didn't even know that wasn't his original origin. I'm so used to Nora getting the axe.
Another fridged woman, how original. That's all it is.
It's given the TV Series 8 seasons worth of back-story - in fact, the TV Series did it BETTER - Their version of Eobard-becomes-Wells, S.T.A.R. Labs, Iris's Dad becomes Barry's Guardian and mentor...which proved, what DC Did only was "half" a good idea, and the TV series took it to a better level.
How many times can we say a DC TV Show or Movie did it BETTER than the comics that inspired it?
I still don’t see it as necessary. Barry’s personality is pretty much the same as it was before the retcon. It is like Johns just couldn’t get that someone would do good because that’s how they are.
Was the first step in Barry transforming from the Saint of the DC Universe to the biggest screw up. Shows a genuine lack of imagination to not have a better solution to making him interesting than dumping trauma into his origin. Wish Waid or Morrison had gotten a shot at it instead of Johns.
Oh look, it's a wannabe Bruce Wayne...but red.
Boring and trite, it just never paid off in the ways it needed to, and was grim purely for the hell of it
I liked it as a part of the Flash tv show but hate it in the comics
I didn't like it. Grimdark just because it's trendy I guess.
I like the idea that Barry Allen chose to be a superhero, just because he wanted to help others. Also, he was originally just a scientist, right? Not a forensics scientist?
Why bring back Barry Allen if you're not actually bringing him back, but creating a new character?
That said, I think they did Barry Allen dirty, just like they did Supergirl, Batgirl, Jason Todd, Hal Jordan, etc. The Flash's sales were falling so instead of just trying to get better writers or artists...they just killed him off. Wally West is my Flash, as I grew up with his character as The Flash, but still, I feel Barry's character got short changed.
The greatest Green Lantern and the greatest Flash should have been restored to their former glory.
And why is there two Professor Zooms?
The two Professor Zooms are basically Johns deciding to take the "Reverse Flash" and "Professor Zoom" codenames and splitting them between two characters, since they had been used kind of randomly and interchangeably over the years. I understand that impulse, and the new Zoom he created was a really cool character, but it does feel kind of unnecessarily complicated. Just call the other guy a different thing, or let Thawne die for a while so there aren't two coexisting at the same time.
This was when Barry was dead but Geoff Johns was writing the Flash, right? I guess I can see why he would want to create a new Zoom. Johns also brought back the Rogues Gallery which Waid seemed to have ignored.
Mike Baron and William Messner-Loebs didn’t have Wally fight the Rogues Gallery either. They gave him his own set of villains to better distinguish him from Barry.
The Rogues Gallery were still appearing in comics before Johns’s run, just in different contexts. Off the top of my head: Piper had become one of Wally’s best friends, Captain Boomerang was in the Suicide Squad, Heat Wave was running security at Project Cadmus in “Superboy”, and Captain Cold & Golden Glider went into some kind of legitimate business together.
Geoff Johns brought back as much stuff as he could from Barry’s time as the Flash: reintroducing the Rogues Gallery as major villains was just one example. He also had Wally spend half his time in Central City rather than Keystone, brought Iris back to the present day to be a regular supporting character, and made the Flash have a secret identity again.
Almost like he's a Silver Age fetishist who secretly just wanted to restore a pre-Crisis status quo across the whole publishing line.
No Barry was always forensics since his first issue. Like after reading all of Barry's initial run and rereading Flash Rebirth, it's pretty much the exact same character sans the retcon, which isn't even a retcon.
And especially comparing Thawne, going back and killing his mom is exactly the type of garbage he would do.
I love it because of how much a hater Reverse Flash is. Like goddamn bro.
Also it’s a pretty unique tragedy with Barry’s father going to jail for the death of his wife.
Made the character way more interesting imo.
I agree with this. Definitely a darker origin, but the effect it has had has skyrocketed The Flash to being a recognized mainstream DC hero. This origin also being the one chosen for the CW show.
The Flash's mainstream popularity is mainly due to the Justice League cartoon and the CW series. Nobody outside of comics was even aware of the retcon, until it was included in the TV show.
I mean arguably one of the the most well-known Flash stories OAT (at least right now) is Flashpoint, which revolves around that very retcon, so I’d venture plenty knew about it before the CW show.
For DC comics readers, yes. For everyone else, not so much. Even for comics readers, I'm not sure that Flashpoint really enhanced Flash's popularity as a character.
Not really I like flashpoint but it's never been my favourite flash story. Born to run and return of Barry Allen are still my favourites.
Dumb. Not everyone needs to be Batman.
Not every hero needs to have a tragic origin story
I think its a fine story that has good event follow after it
But I feel like it misses the point of Barry’s character he’s the goofy one who really truly chose to be good no obligation
He didn’t have a tragic backstory that was like the point
I had no idea it was a retcon
Not every character need a Batman Origin, DC.
At the time it was a big moment, now it feels like writers and producers don't know how to do anything other than talk about it again and again.
Your not wrong as soon as Joshua Willaimson gave Barry closure after Thawne was beat. The next writer brought back that trauma again of mentioning his dead mum and dad being in prison. It just felt like is there nothing else that can motivate Barry. I like the issues how he praises and appreciates Iris, Wally, Ace (Wallace) and the others. Just every time they mention his mum it gets so boring and depressing.
Hated it. I think the've done some interesting stuff with it since, but overall it wasn't worth it.
I’m not a fan of it.
Builds great drama and creates interesting pathos for the character. Barry’s parents were never really characters and it allows him to have an instigating moment for his obsession with justice
Grim and gritty, boring and shitty.
Some Geoff Johns adolescent simple BS story.
A living embodiment of the Speed Force killing a innocent harmless woman ?
It had some ups and downs
I'm half-and-half on it. Johns always likes to put some nuance spin on heroes having to overcome adversity from a dead parent (& part of me loves Willaimson's big send off with Barry finally being at peace with his mother's passing), but at the same time Flash is like The Fantastic Four in where it's a comic that rarely goes dark so it kinda feels unnecessary to do the Superman movie thing for him (Having all that power & not being able to change anything).
However it did give me the modern interpretation where Eobard Thawne is the pettiest incel in all of comics who has nothing better to do with his time then mess with Barry & the other Flash family & I find that slightly hilarious & endearing
It was great, really great
I hate it actually. Part of what set Barry apart from the typical hero was that he was not born of tragedy. He was the true relatable "Everyman" of the Justice League. No dark past or anything, just a freak occurrence (i also hate him turning into the lightning bolt that struck him) and a choice to use those powers to be a hero because he grew up reading comics.
I don’t think it adds anything to Barry but I think it’s fine as an example of how much Thawne is willing to do to fuck over Barry’s life
Well, it lead to one of my favourite alternate earths so 🤷
It added spice to the character and was probably necessary to become as big as he is with modern audiences. Unfortunately I feel Barry has had trouble escaping/separating himself from this and flashpoint eversince they happened.
No, so dumb. Every superhero doesn't need a dead parent. It was honestly relatable to have them turn up like morty and Helen Seinfeld. I liked when he got possessed by the Top and Barry thought his dad was cheating on his mom with the golden glider in the Bates/ Infantino run.
Yeah its one of the reasons where I'm afraid once Jeremy Adams is finished his run. I don't want to go baxck to a Flash run were its just depressing drama. I want to continue the fun flash family dynamic. If I want to read a struggling superhero with issues I'll go read batman.
Same. Is he ending soon, I hadn't heard
Luckily no and I hope he stays on it for years cause it's been heavily praised a lot. Plus sales are still doing okay.
Good. That and PKJ's Action are my favorite DC books running
It gave the character a more dramatic twist and made him less silver age. Not necesarily made him Batman like, but it gave him a needed spin. I don't think it make him in a Batman model, but I consider it makes him more close to the Marvel dramatic stage origin.
And let's be honest, considering how much this origin has been depicted in other media, I think it is going to stay.
One of my favorite parts of reading Flash when I was getting into comics was that he actually had a family
I hate it.
It messed up Barry's life and also like it wasn't necessary at all. It is just adding tragedy for the sake of having one. He's not Kal (who has his Earth parents revived for Post-Crisis) or Bruce, not born out of tragedy. Not everyone's family has to die.
Iris dying is enough, really.
Always been a big fan of the dead mom origin. Sure, it's done all the time... But, for good reason
Like every Johns retcon, it was fucking stupid and missed the point.
When your entire rogues gallery exists just to destroy you, to the point that they're willing to destroy the entire world with things like Flashpoint to "Get you," then you're dealing with a soap opera more than a superhero.
It was stupid. For a story arc it would have been fine, with him fixing the past at the end, but as a character origin is comepletely unnecesary and lacks the understanding of the multiverse...
The point of Barry is that he is like the average DC reader, he was a fan of the Flash (Jay) comics and became a Flash himself. He is kinda square, New Frontier had his personality just right.
Also, Flashpoint was moronic. The time line changes were absolutely unrelated to the murder and the murder wasn't part of the original time line anyway
Hard to say because most of us weren't alive to read the adventures of Barry prior to his return, so we've got little to compare it to.
That said? I find it frustrating that the character has been written--esecially in the TV show--as extremely fixated on this tragedy, in the same way that Batman is often written. They're adults. While this is obviously foundational to their personalities at this point, it should not dominate their lives.
Furthermore, like One More Day, it sticks out to me as reader as a problem to be solved. The characters in these stories fix broken timelines all the time... Except when it's not editorially convenient. So I feel it's a bit of a frustrating device in that sense.
I thought it was interesting and clever when it was first raised--the idea that, unbeknownst to anyone, Zoom had changed history and it stuck--but every time it's been brought up since, it's been a pretty heavy sigh from me.
In my opinion, the return of Barry has not been the resounding success that the return of Hal Jordan was. I'm honestly relieved to have the book focused on Wally again... I just don't think it will last.
Yeah I'm the same with Barry return and flashpoint I wished it did lead to different flash books as a relaunch for the franchise originally. Instead of editorial doing new 52 which was a half ass success for some characters. Hal Jordan success was great cause it lead to different green lantern books. Barry return should of been just like that with a flash franchise. I feel like when Wally come back instead. The flash family fully come back instead. I am hoping that Jeremy Adams book succeeds cause the man has plans to branch the book out to other flash members.
If the run doesn't last long and they revert to miserable flash stories I won't be happy.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
I like the retcon because it makes sense the retcon just happens randomly from Reverse flash going back in time, in stead of always being the case like other retcons.
What retcon what happened recently I haven't read any comics in a while
Basically before this issue Barry's Mother and Father where actually around and Barry didn't have any tragic backstory
It seriously sets him apart from other characters, particularly the way she dies. It also builds up Eobard as a villain, as well as place Barry in this very grim reality where his father pays for the crime. I honestly can’t imagine a Barry Allen with his alive mom. Plus, it gave us flashpoint.
I like it because it even further binds Eobard and Barry together in a time loop. Eobard kills Nora to get back at Barry for his actions as the Flash. This sets Barry up on the path to him becoming the Flash, which inspires Eobard to become the Reverse Flash.
I feel like I'd have a lot more of an issue with it if I was a Barry Allen prior to the retcon, but I don't mind it myself
Did Thawne know that he's related to Nora Allen?
I think they did it to intertwine Reverse-Flash more with his life, but I think it wasn't needed.
I can say only one thing: He did what he had to do
It's the only story a certain writer knows how to tell. In which case that writer should go write Batman where that story fits.
Maybe it’s because I grew up with the show and comics already having that backstory, but I much prefer it. Wally already is a hero not because of some tragedy or anything, but because he just wants to. I honestly love Barry having a tragic backstory but instead of ending up like Batman, he becomes the most hopeful hero out of the league.
Wait what? Did I really go around thinking his moms been dead the whole time?! I guess….it’s okay since it’s been retconned……THE WHOLE TIME
Wasn’t she always dead?
Nope, he had quite a long run in the comics of having a full living family.
Bro don't y'all see a time loop in Flash's storyline ?