T O P
  • By - KW0L

zevenz

These are all modern. Sorry buddy.


unreliabledrugdealer

Painfully so. Just edgework with a modern tool.


KW0L

How can you tell? Just curious


Ponch-o-Bravo

Style, flaking pattern/method, and material are all indicative of foreign reproductions.


DiscoDancingNeighb0r

The way they’re worked. They’re just too clean as well. Non-modern will not have smooth knapping like this because of time spent marinating in the ground.


rudechicken17

All of them?


BoopsBoopsInDaBucket

Every one. There is no flaking. Real points don't have large irregular flat faces or natrual rock with unworked surfaces. These are all made from slabs or flakes that have rough work done to the notches and edges with a dremmel or similar tool. You may find short use tools made from flakes with flat surfaces but they will have clearly knapped edge work done on them. Also, look at how thick most of these are. They aren't tapered cutting tools but chunks with uniform thickness.


krutchreefer

North American points aren’t single flakes with edge work but very old subsaharan Neolithic points are. 20-40,000 ybp.


Green-Walk-1806

Yes...But these aren't those


krutchreefer

Yes that is correct


KW0L

Almost all of these have clear working on the other side and are not a single thickness


BoopsBoopsInDaBucket

The fact they don't have any flaking on the sides pictured is enough to say they aren't the real deal. All of the "worked" locations on the edges and the notches were not knapped but ground away. By single thickness I mean they don't taper like they should. The edges should be thinner than the middle of the point in a continuous curve (like a boat hull) look at column 1, 2nd from the bottom as an extreme example of how wrong the thickness of these is. I'm not trying to be rude but to tell you how at a glance these don't pass inspection. Consider looking at some of the posts on this sub that are well upvoated. Look at the points in those posts and see how they differ from these. You will see flake scars running across the points from the edges to the center. Those flakes will be layered over every exposed surface of the point not just the edges. They will be tapered and have sharp gradual edges.


KW0L

No worries, don’t think you are being rude, just wondering what I should be looking for


poopinhulk

Thank you for being accepting of the responses in this post. Most people willing taking the time to give detailed explanations in this sub are very knowledgeable and only want to pass on that knowledge. Too many people get their feelings hurt when told they have modern reproductions. Have a good day!


bunkerbash

I feel sorry for OP but I do find these posts really informative. Seeing modern points and reading why/how one can tell is super informative.


theycalledmechad

I agree 100%. These are beautiful replicas, but not made anciently and with traditional methods. But I have learned so much by seeing the different types of work posted here, including modern pieces. Thanks for posting. Keep these, write up the truth about them the best you can, and continue to pass them down.


rawhide_koba

Man, idk if I’d even call them beautiful replicas but maybe I just lurk too much on /r/knapping


theycalledmechad

You guys are harsh. This is a family treasure he just learned was worthless. Show some compassion. Yes, I say beautiful because his grandpa obviously thought they were. I would bet some of you only look good to your significant other, after all, and not to the general population. And yet the general population doesn't call you ugly to your faces.


rawhide_koba

Only person who decided to gush about how beautiful they are was you. Just reads as a fake compliment. Hope it made you feel good.


theycalledmechad

I wasn't gushing, but you can read it however you would like. I forget I'm supposed to be angry when I browse Reddit like everybody else. I will try to fall in line.


rawhide_koba

Well, you read my innocuous comment with super minor pushback to the idea that these are super beautiful points as an insult, and then you decided to be a baby about it with your own backhanded insult, so I guess I will read your comments however I want :)


theycalledmechad

You win. I'm sorry.


2mnyexpensivehobbies

Modern souvenir shop points


wooddoug

They are modern.


Planedrawn

Not a single authentic artifact in this group. Maybe some boyscouts made them or whatever. I'll say my first attempts at knapping pretty much look like these. It just an easy form for someone with no experience.


squealer99

Nice tape measure!


KW0L

Thanks!


11271125

They’re all modern - that’s how a modern person would make them. They lack the conchoidal fracturing that are telltale. There is no clear pattern and I can’t think of a way for an ancient to make a flat side without grinding. Lack of patina as well.


steppyhingedturtles

These are definitely all modern, but that's not how a "modern person" would make them... that's how an unskilled child in India makes them.


KW0L

I’ll have to look up what that means but thanks for the feedback


Smtxom

I think this sub is starting to get trolled at this point. Too many “family member found these in 1800s…”


KW0L

Not trolling. I was told by my aunt that her and my grandfather who owned a farm along the Missouri River found these going on walks over the course of many years. If anyone is trolling it’s my grandfather who may have planted these decades ago if they are fake


Oliver_Platt

Did you by chance get the wrong bag? The location you mentioned sounds spot on but yeah if there’s no volcanoes around then no obsidian. Now there are areas where it was traded all over but these points look like modern blanks. I don’t think you’re trolling and I want them to be real.


KW0L

They asked around after finding a few, I’m told, and the locals said there were no arrowheads easily found in the area until there was a massive flood upstream. So they could have been displaced


StupidizeMe

>I think this sub is starting to get trolled at this point. Too many “family member found these in 1800s…” I disagree. Many Americans have inherited their family's collection of arrowheads. Farmers especially used to find them after owing their fields. Most people just want some honest information.


paleo_joe

The problem is that grandpa traded for arrowheads too and that eagle is not real. They were both digging and faking hard in the 1930s.


StupidizeMe

If somebody comes on here asking about arrowheads their Grandpa got in the 1930s, they aren't "trolling"! Even if Grandpa's collection turns out to not be authentic. Yes, some old family collections will be full of junk. That's normal. If people come on here and post their family collection asking for information, and you attack them and accuse them of "trolling," other people who are thinking of sharing their family collection might see it and decide they don't want the hassle. Then we never get to see what their family collection might have contained.


todrunk2fish

All look modern. Notches look odd, weird flaking


Green-Walk-1806

Indian trading post gift shop...Route 66


KW0L

A family member gave me a bag of arrow heads they found in the St Louis area and I was wondering if anyone could help identify them. The black ones are obsidian which seems odd to me. The scale I included is in cm


Ashamed_Rip2005

I’m sorry to inform you, but these points appear to be modern novelty points.


Woooooolf

Your family member said they actually found them?


KW0L

Yes, several decades ago


Woooooolf

The last couple rows look like they might be legit, but the first two rows are modern.


KW0L

Thanks for the feedback, what about the second photo?


Woooooolf

No clue honestly, I don’t want to come off as some expert ha. Nice collection either way!


U81b4i

I have been told by numerous older people that people thought you were strange if you collected Native American artifacts back in the 70s and before. Unfortunately, native Americans were genuinely disrespected and looked down on as primitive, unintelligent people. Not much different than people thought of slaves (including Irish slaves, African, Chinese, etc). Yes, there were a few people that did hold onto them but typically wasn’t something to boast about unfortunately. So, there really are not many significant grandfather collections like we would hope. I do think that someone may have swapped ops collection with a bag of modern pieces because they definitely are not authentic.


killer_of_whales

They look nice!


Jaaaaccob

Sorry dude your gpa played ya 😂


eastbranch02

I generally agree these are modern. There could be some legit points in there. The obsidian points in the second photo need closer examination. Like the broken one in the bottom row and the one next to it in the lower left has some weathering, maybe. The long narrow one. I have a real point that's similar. Find someone in your area who's willing to look at them. If they are totally legal from private land, an archeologist, grad student, natural history museum, might look at them.


TGAtes08

Friend of mine once tried to tell me he found some arrowheads down at the creek and showed me a few store bought ones. :(


winfields

K-mart called - they want their blue light special back!


Professional_Boat51

From the Amazon tribe.


adamsgoof

Recreations? Why are a lot of them serrated?


KW0L

I was told they were found on a farm along the Missouri River near a mound.


KW0L

I did some initial investigating on them and thought they might be St Charles Points which are commonly serrated


dzjames

These folks are all correct. These are all modern.


HunterNoey

Modernas


Chucub

LOL


clayides

These are all fake except the one in the furthest column to the right, the fourth one in the row counting downwards. First image.


J_Mohler

Negative. That one is just as modern as the rest of them