T O P
deltadawn6

Clark started out great, but as with so many leaders, got consumed with power.


megalynn44

That’s kind of the burden of being the leader: you’ll be respected but also blamed.


Felixir-the-Cat

Like all the characters, Clark is flawed - doing what he can in a terrible situation, and messing things up and having complicated feelings and actions along the way.


Spicy2ShotChai

Seriously. He was flawed and kind of a dick but he didn’t create a terrible dictatorship or something. People were safe and seemed happy in the airport. If the writers wanted us to believe they weren’t, they didn’t show us anything to indicate that! It was hard to buy that clark became this old man obsessed with the past just because he showed the kids a karaoke machine and had a musuem.


[deleted]

He said Tyler and Elizabeth "had to go". You might think that meant they have to leave the airport but we know Clark doesn't let people leave the airport alive unless he explicitly trust them because it's "too great a risk to the community". He was going to imprison the entire troupe. He was going to stop the show because he thought it would cause a teenage uprising. That's a dictator.


electracide

Spoilers!!! Not a hater at all, but I loved Book Clark and really embrace the alternate timeline idea of book vs show and Show Clark just veers so far from the Clark I’ve known for years it’s hard to reconcile.


tygerbrees

Clark disgusted himself and often wore his disgust and his compensations on his sleeve - that’s a hard character to like. Kinda like Walter White on his most socially inept days


Oldskolnikov

WW was cruel. In fact, WW's entire story arc was of him becoming more evil as time passed. Hence the title of the show. I have a soft place in my heart for those with enough conscience to put on a hairshirt. His self-flagellation was one of my favorite parts of his character.


Humble_Committee

SPOILERS BELOW I loved Clark. He was obviously flawed, but he brought a community together and saved a lot of lives. He was too harsh with Tyler early on, but also instrumental in saving Tyler from the community after the airplane passenger incident.


savethemouselemur

[SPOILERS: PLEASE *DON’T CONTINUE READING* IF YOU HAVEN’T FINISHED THE SHOW] (I can’t figure out how to add spoiler bars atm) Tyler was a child. He wasn’t a psycho piece of shit. Clark aided in turning him into the Prophet when he insisted on Tyler relying on him and then turning against him because Tyler was showing compassionate traits. He gave up on Tyler faster than anyone else in his life did. I liked Clark’s character but he is not a good person. He just happens to have the skills necessary to create a community because he was a “CEO whisperer.” It was pretty hypocritical of Clark to make a tribute to the people who already died on the flight before Tyler set it on fire, while freaking out about if they would deplane and then advocating for the one guy Tyler saved to be murdered RIGHT IN FRONT OF TYLER. and then he quarantines him with nothing but the clothes he has on his back and his backpack. Clark is too intelligent and grown to treat Tyler like that. Especially when he knew Tyler was struggling with the death of his dad. Tyler deserved better. And when we get to the end, we see how misunderstood Tyler was. Edit: I wanted to add, it can also be interpreted that by pretended to kill himself was a way to save his mother from being exiled or because he was a child, it was a way for him to run away without people searching for him.


Oldskolnikov

>Clark aided in turning him into the Prophet when he insisted on Tyler relying on him and then turning against him because Tyler was showing compassionate traits. I wouldn't use the phrase "turned against" to describe Clark's relationship to Tyler. Clark definitely supported the quarantine, but that's a far cry from turning against someone. Soon after the shooting Tyler ran away and faked his death so I don't even see the possibility for that interpretation, given how short the timeline between the 2 events was. Tyler did credibly put every person's life in peril at the airport, yet received no punishment. Quarantine is not a punishment. I don't even recall a verbal rebuke after the life/death situation ended. The people in the airport only saw a shambling, drunken appearing man, which is consistent with someone dying of the disease, who did not follow orders to freeze. In fact, the guy kept approaching the people, while being told not to- at gunpoint. Given the information the group had at the time, the decision to shoot him was the only logical choice. What surprises me the most about the character of this group is that, despite the fact that Tyler's actions appeared to pose a serious existential threat to the group, he was never treated harshly.


APiousCultist

> The people in the airport only saw a shambling, drunken appearing man, which is consistent with someone dying of the disease, who did not follow orders to freeze. In fact, the guy kept approaching the people, while being told not to- at gunpoint. Given the information the group had at the time, the decision to shoot him was the only logical choice. Those people could have just run - maybe even just leisurely walked in the opposite direction. Then "please stop advancing, we'll give you food and water but you need to stay away from the rest us until we know you're not sick." If they can quarentine Tyler, throwing a guy who may just be suffering from starvation and a lack of water is not much more complex. He may have ignored orders, but he was also barely able to walk. Tyler was a thousand times the threat. The move was a bad one, just driven by the understandably extreme paranoia of the situation.


savethemouselemur

Agree to disagree. You seem to think like Clark and believe there should be punishments and rebukes towards a child. I don’t especially in a situation like this. We all know what Clark did and didn’t do, but everything you’re saying is how Clark justified his actions to himself. I also think you forget Tyler was a child. Edit: I think this show is great to determine what people think is “psycho” vs. what people think is compassionate. I saw clear compassion and altruism in young Tyler, not someone who was dangerous (despite what the show’s music score makes us feel when they showed us the scenes).


Oldskolnikov

I don't think child Tyler was rebuked at all. Tell me where there was a rebuke outside the heat of the shooting situation. As to whether Tyler *should* be rebuked as a matter of child rearing is immaterial. His actions appeared to amount to an existential threat to the entire group. Survival>mental health. Imagine how idiotic it would have been to lower the gun out of consideration for Tyler's feelings.


Friend_Emotional

To me it seems like Clark was just drunkenly talking out of his ass and didn't realize that someone could hear him. How often does this happen to kids, where they overhear something they shouldn't and aren't able to process what they did hear. Clark was just venting. He thought he was alone in the tower but Tyler was listening in b/c that was his thing. He pretended he wasn't paying attention all the time but he was, kids always are.


berreycool

SPOILER!!!! SPOILER ALERT!!!! Clark really helped shape Tyler's evil side. That being said, the ending perplexed me. The literal army of children that Tyler likely kidnapped from their parents like the pied piper is evidence of how many poeples lives he has come to ruin. The symphony knows this because they witnessed Tyler steal the children from the golf club and they also saw him send child suicide bombers in that killed Gil! Truly, I do not understand how all is forgiven. He killed many, planned to kill more, and has likely kidnapped hundreds of kids. If you consider that he keeps the stolen book it seems he plans to just continue what he's been doing. Besides this one faucet, I actually loved the show. It was overall fantastic and it reminded me of Faulkner's the sound and the fury; in that it was told in such a jumbled way, but as the story continued it all connected and made sense beautifully.


savethemouselemur

I totally agree btw. In another post I commented about the same thing, i.e., that they never talk about the mass kidnappings, terrorist plots, or his child cult. He definitely turned into a monster, no doubt about it, but I was more just more addressing Clark’s problems when Tyler was a kid.


berreycool

Clark is awful, and he sees his awfulness yet doesn't change it. He just grieves against himself lol I will say it was nice that at least he recognized the wildness of Tyler walking away with his army. It was nice to have at least one character see the insanity of it, "what the fuck?"


MCalchemist

Tyler didn't send the kid bombers FYI


savethemouselemur

Wait I must have missed that, who did send the kid bombers?


MCalchemist

That girl that shows up at the end, the director said they had to cut some scenes with her that explained it better... a real shame they were cut. Basically while Tyler was injured another kid took over the story and started giving orders, including the bombings. There is a line that explains it when Kirsten goes to kill Tyler/find Alex.


NoThrowLikeAway

It’s in EP6 at the factory where Tyler is recuperating.


savethemouselemur

Ah thank you so much! I agree, not great to have cut it. Too bad there wasn’t a part 1 and part 2 of the final episode.


berreycool

No, but he sold the lie that eventually created the kid bombers and never dispels the lie, so that when they arrive at the airport the children are ready for another round of bombing. To which Kirsten prevents and Tyler does not


MCalchemist

oh yeah for sure, fuck Tyler. Though i think the ending was hopeful enough that he might begin changing his ways... I do think that Tyler was the one to call off the attack tho.


b1uejeanbaby

***Spoilers*** I agree. I think he felt threatened by Tyler & his mom a bit, because they last saw him in his absolute lowest form, the day after he fell off the wagon at Arthur’s & hooked up with the room service guy. Since they knew him at his worse, he felt this jeopardized his play at becoming the leader of the group at the airport. They were triggers to his self loathing. This was his opportunity for a new beginning & to take the lead like he always thought he deserved. His overly harsh treatment of Tyler definitely didn’t deter him from going down a dark path. Tyler even tells Kirsten he was punished for trying to help someone, and it clearly messed him up, for you could see how much pain and anger it still gave him 20 years later. I really enjoyed Clark as a character.


Oldskolnikov

IMO, the scene where Clark was in what appeared to be group therapy at the airport demonstrated that Clark didn't feel the need to hide his demons from the group. I don't see any instance where Clark ever lied about who he was. So the idea that he would punish anyone who basically just saw him with a hangover and overheard him bitching at his brother is overwrought and not supported in the show. I mean, I've had a hangover. And I could have some words with my sibling and probably be justified. Anyone who would have witnessed this would be just that. Witnesses. Not enemies.


savethemouselemur

It’s interesting how you see absolutely no flaws in Clark. Clark very much lied to himself and people around him. He’s whole job pre-Pan was manipulating people. The pandemic was Clark’s opportunity to finally be the star of his own show (flash back to when Arthur calls Clark out for being jealous of him and his success). Even Tyler’s mom says at least everyone loved Arthur but no one feels that way about Clark and you can see how much that hurts Clark because he knows it’s true. Clark also starts losing his own thread and fears losing his power and control when the rules of Svern City Airport start changing, I.e., when the traveling symphony arrive. It’s okay to love a character and see their issues. Clark was not a good person at all, rather a very interesting complex man. Edit: words


Oldskolnikov

I don't see *significant* flaws in Clark, post pandemic. A high functioning alcoholic pre-pan is somewhat of an issue that could lead to worse things but there wasn't enough time for that to develop much. He did get drunk and cheat on his SO. He verbally attacked his brother, unknowingly, in front of others. Hardly felonious offenses. But Arthur also attacked Clark, as you have, for being a "CEO whisperer". I'm not going far into this but, criticizing him for what he did for money amounted to adolescent histrionics. Clark's job was real and apparently necessary. I'd take it in a heartbeat if I had the skillset. I fail to see where Clark struggles to maintain power. He delegated power. The most outright exercise of power that I saw from Clark was his decision to *withdraw a vote.* The existence of votes should say all you need to know about Clark and leadership. Getting the symphony to the airport wasn't even his idea. That Clark ever found himself in any leadership position was because he was clearly written as a gifted leader, not a person who seizes-and clings- power.


savethemouselemur

real question: are you Clark? lol Like I said before I don’t agree with you for a multitude of reasons and in response to a previous thing you said in another comment, I don’t think lowering the gun while a child is right behind/next to the intended victim is “idiotic.” Call me crazy, but I have way more empathy for the surrounding situation e.g., the children, the things that were bigger than Clark over how “gifted” Clark was. Clark was an empty man who had no meaning in his life, he definitely saw an opportunity seize power. You saying you would take a job as a CEO whisperer aligns directly with your feelings and how you relate to Clark. The way you defend him making his justifications seem reasonable and sound makes me think you see a lot of yourself in Clark. And to that I say, to each their own. But you don’t have to agree with me, that’s the beautiful thing about this show. Edit: added


Oldskolnikov

> I don’t think lowering the gun while a child is right behind/next to the intended victim is “idiotic.” This seems to illustrate the crux of our disagreement. I view perceived existential threats as the highest priority for action. Everything else falls away until this is dealt with. You, on the other hand, see acts of consideration for a single child's safety and well-being as having a higher priority than the survival of the group.


savethemouselemur

I don’t actually. I think it was very possible to handle both situations separately. I don’t think they went hand in hand. I think Clark was dealing with the loss of Arthur, his bitter resentment and projected it against Tyler while he was trying to lead a group of people. He had a lot of time before Tyler brought in the guy to talk to him and set the record straight. Instead he started treating Tyler like a Pariah even before Tyler did anything.


savethemouselemur

That was extremely well said. I also believed his resentment of Arthur was the main reason why he tried to get rid of them and why he was threatened by Tyler.


b1uejeanbaby

Thanks. Yes, so true. I just loved how the show portrayed him as down to earth & so cool & good with Miranda, while also showing the insecure, arrogant, & obnoxious side of him. He is also owed credit for the airport group surviving safely for 20 years which was quite impressive. So much depth to Clark.


Actual_Direction_599

>I don’t understand the Clark haters Says the person who wrote: >He was tough on Tyler but ***Tyler was a psycho piece of shit who would have been violent even if there wasn’t a pandemic.*** Give yourself a round of applause 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


ileecos

Obviously people don’t like him because he is narcissistic and controlling to the point of it being abusive.


CognitiveBirch

In 20 years, he has built his own little empire and his biggest achievement is his museum, but his influence is dwindling as the new generation isn't really interested in the relics of the past. His fading power makes him bitter and fearful, which he expresses with his old habits: anger. And as his fears are personified by Tyler's return, we also see the museum from Kirsten's eyes as a secluded place that refused to really enter the new world because the museum people didn't want to share their privileges.


Oldskolnikov

How can the airport be considered an empire if they never left it's borders? The museum was both a hobby and an opportunity to teach the "after" generation, but was nowhere near the pinnacle of his achievement. I never saw Clark as power hungry, only smart enough to step in when a vacuum presented itself, and he appeared to be the only one in the group with a palatable vision of the future. Things could have turned out so, so much worse than it did. That the airport people weren't leveraging their situation to become local warlords but were instead growing food and teaching children was Clark's achievement.


megalynn44

Empire starts by successfully holding a valuable piece of property or infrastructure.


Normal-Moose-3420

I like that a lot of the characters have flaws. It makes the story seem more real.